#10899 - Lord Graga - Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:02 pm
Heya, I was wondering about your idea about the outcome of the competition.
Personally, I think that "Sushi the cat" will win, but what do you think?
I can't wait :P
#10902 - Stroff - Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:01 pm
[quote="Lord Graga"]Heya, I was wondering about your idea about the outcome of the competition.
Personally, I think that "Sushi the cat" will win, but what do you think?
I can't wait :P[/quote]
I decided to hold off on entering this compo, because my entry wasn't quite finished, and I didn't want to submit something half-baked. Seeing how nice the entries were, I'm glad I made this decision ^_^
Sushi the Cat was polished and appealing, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it wins the top prize.
There were a lot of other great entries, too. I especially enjoyed the games that put a new twist on an old theme (like the isometric view snake game, the suped up pong remake, or the action game with really huge sprites). I was also particularly impressed with how many developers chose to try and do something innovative this year, instead of just working within an existing genre.
It'll be interesting to see what happens, voting-wise. But I think the entries speak for themselves.
#10908 - Wildginger - Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:20 pm
Hi,
I agree, Sushi the cat was very good, and I wouldnt be surprised to see it win. There were some excellent entries in this comp.
I am co-author of "Kitchen Acadamy", and was just wondering what you thought of it, considering, a) We never got round to finishing it / polishing it / getting rid of all bugs etc, and b) It was our first game...
Slate it if you like ;-) I certainly dont expect it to place too high, but I really enjoyed doing it, and am looking forward to either carrying it on, or starting afresh.
Oh well, heres to GBA project number 2!!
Jim.
_________________
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Wildginger (aka JimTownsend)
#10909 - Lord Graga - Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:31 pm
Now that's the spirit Wildginger, because that's what compos is all about (work on a entry, take a break, get stressed and submit it the last second).
I was the author of "Iterum Consentus"
#10911 - Wildginger - Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:42 pm
Cool game, although big red guy tended to get me most of the time.
"You died. You have 0 lives left" . . . I got to see that a few times :)
How did you go about sound? That is what I was struggling on when I stopped coding. Got some sound effects, but no music . . . Quite a few of the entries have good music.
_________________
---
Wildginger (aka JimTownsend)
#10912 - Stroff - Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:56 pm
[quote="Wildginger"]Hi,
I am co-author of "Kitchen Acadamy", and was just wondering what you thought of it, considering, a) We never got round to finishing it / polishing it / getting rid of all bugs etc, and b) It was our first game...
Jim.[/quote]
Kitchen Academy is the game where you collect colored sausages as keys to get past the dogs, right? I admit to playing it for quite some time as I tried each entry. It was cute, simple, and effective... the color-coded keys reminded me a bit of Montezuma's Revenge, but with a top-down view. The humorous "help" icons were a nice touch.
My only gripe with it is that it got incredibly frustrating on the advanced stages... Since you can only see a small part of the stage at a time, you are forced to take paths at random and have to restart over and over. It became more a game of memory and luck than a true puzzle game.
#10915 - flindingo - Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:24 am
Sushi was graphically impressive, but it suffered from being yet another platformer, the type of game that dominated the contest, and most contests thereof. I was impressed with Critical Velocity and trade winds for doing something new and different, unfortunately they were plagued by hard to use controls. Great use of rotations and maps though.
But all in all I'm rooting for Money Match, a fan of Idol Exchange, you can't beat that, also the fact it has a 2-player link with a single cart, pretty killer! Can't test that on an emulator tho, but on a flash cart and a couple GBA's or a Gamecube GBA player, pretty slick.
Good contest though, will be excited to see who comes out on top.
#10922 - Sweex - Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:58 pm
Hey guys!
I've coded Critical Velocity. I've been working on it for about 10 weeks in my spare time. A lot of that was devoted to create some decent tools. Unfortunately due to a misunderstanding with "my artist" I ended up doing the map graphics myself which ate up some time to finish my entry itself. (Hence: no minimap and lousy controls!) I entered the compo anyway because I'm curious what people will think of it and after all you never know what the competition is going to be like!:)
Sushi is indeed quite nice. Sure, it is "another platformer" but it is done well imho... I've got doubts about the "Strongbad" game (Awexome), and about the "Rex new missions". Is that a completely new game or did that come out in some form already? I also quite like the Space Twins entry although I'm not sure what the goal is!:)
I am too curious about the final results!
(Oh and Wildginger: The guy that did music in my game is a good friend of mine who likes doing GBA style tunes!:)
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#10923 - bootlegger - Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:16 pm
Hi
I coded 3 weeks in Paradise.
I personaly think Sushi the cat was the best of the entries, shame it was only one level though.
Secondly Bombs Away - cute and fun to play.
Thirdly I liked Space Twins for its professional look, but I couldn't rate the gameplay.
My fourth choice would be Critical Velocity.
RexNewMission was also excellent but suffered from slow downs and graphics were a little to small otherwise that would have come in my top four.
Bootlegger
#10924 - abilyk - Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:37 pm
My top pick:
Maler Meister really impressed me. Simple but effective graphics, solid physics and controls, a fun and unique concept, and really good level design. I've had a good challenge just getthing past the first couple levels. Don't let the graphics or the difficulty turn you off, check it out.
#10928 - CaptainCosmic - Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:53 pm
I'm extremely bored with platformers too. In terms of game play, my favorites were Money Match and Trade Winds.
#10929 - Stroff - Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:23 pm
This game is surprisingly cool and challenging, now that I've figured out how to play it ^_^
Save yourself a lot of confusion, and read the text file for a detailed description of play control.
It's a shame there's no sound.
#10953 - KashinKoji - Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:30 pm
I'm glad I found this topic before I started a new one in announcements and suggestions...
I looked at the voting, and I'm surprised there aren't more votes (only 102 last I checked, out of 1400 or so registered forum members) and I'm surprised by how much people loved sushi. I was impressed by it too, good looking and good sound, but its just mario as a cat, and I beat the whole game the first time I played. Turning into a chicken was a nice touch.
I thought more people would vote for "spacetwins," too. The isometric 3/4 view is really well done, and the tile effect when you cross between areas is very cool. I haven't been able to get very far in it, but the concept comes across well.
Now "moneymatch," that is a good game. Even in its current form I would drop 20$ on it to play on the gameboy. Two player over the link really impresses me, ( tho I haven't tested it ) and the gameplay is really addictive. I don't normally go for puzzle games, but something about the quick thinking that goes into this one really grabbed me. One flaw: no way to turn off the music! And those computer opponents are brutal! I beat 3 in a row, I defy anyone to defeat them all, it would take more time than your battery could run. That is one I am going to hang on to, I hope he makes newer versions.
Also, I'd like to brag that I beat "malermeister". Very challenging and fun game. Don't let the simplicity of it fool you.
If I were a judge, though, I think I'd have to go with the more technically impressive games.
Taitris does some really tricky rotation, (im pretty sure the pieces are sprites until they are placed, then they become part of the central background, but for a moment I thought it was rotating all the sprites around the central point, and I was astounded, but if you look close you don't see the pieces move in, and can't move them at the last moment like tetris.) Minor flaw in this one is the button layout.. why does up rotate the piece and a send it? maybe a typo in the code? Seems backwards to me (and probably anyone else who's ever played tetris)
RexNewMission is a remake? The thing plays a little rough, and the tiny graphics are inscrutable, but some of the effects he pulls off with the palette are really cool. (hit a smart bomb to kill all the enemies on screen and you will see what I mean.)
Critical velocity, airhockey, tradewinds, and maybe paddlepanic I think are the only games to make any use of more complex sprite motion, I don't think any of the other games would require any fixed point math to move the sprites at different speeds in different directions.
I haven't played much of the game with the kid and the owls. I'm gonna give that one another shot now, but the first time I played it I was taken back to smurf on the atari.
So if I was a judge:
1. TradeWinds (I may be biased.)
2. MoneyMatch (probably will get 1st imho)
3. MalerMeister
4. SpaceTwins.
5. RexNewMission
6. Sushi
7. taitris
8. critical velocity
But we'll see what happens! I'm really impressed with almost all the entries, so no big deal where I place.
Unless I rank lower than "awexome," that one should probably be disqualified, even if they did make the art from scratch, they made it exactly the same.
#10955 - Lord Graga - Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:02 pm
KashinKoji, it was a great overall you gave us there.
Malermeister is a game who has lot of potential. It is original, and it is functionable, but I don't see any technical impressions. Not that it is important. It could need some more beginners levels, as it gets very hard very quickly. Somehow it reminds me about Chu Chu Rocket :)
Taitris isn't that original, and it is not very userfriendly (seen from my view). I somehow sense that it has got some placed votes, but it is up to the judges to decide that.
I think that this year had very few remakes, and that's good. I love to see originality :)
Also, I would like to hear more about what you guys thinks about Iterum Consentus :)
I haven't really taken the time to get hang of Space Twins and Tradewinds.
Also, I found out that the game "Surf Advance" uses ripped GFX from Rayman Advance :O
#10957 - Stroff - Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:46 pm
[quote="Lord Graga"]Also, I would like to hear more about what you guys thinks about Iterum Consentus :)[/quote]
I love the music and theme. It reminds me of "Kung Fu Master" a bit, but with two dimensions of freedom.
That being said, it's damn hard. There are situations where you get cornered, and see you are going to die in about 5 seconds no matter what you do, and that's very frustrating. The indestructable boss creature is obviously an important part of the gameplay, but it would be nice if there was a way to kill it... even if you could only do so after killing the smaller monsters, that would be most satisfying. Similarly, the fact that it can go right through walls feels pretty cheap - adding some limitations to its movements would probably up the "fun factor" of what is a very promising gameplay idea.
#10959 - KashinKoji - Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:40 pm
Lord Graga,
I liked interum consentus. It reminded me of joust meets legend of kage, or something. I remember a game like it on the pc called jumpman or jumpguy or something, where the object was to cover all the platform areas by moving across them, "painting" them a new shade of green. I think interum could use something like that, a goal, so to speak, outside of simply surviving. It can be very hard and also frustrating, like stroff already said, with the red demon bearing in relentlessly. Even the pterodactyl in joust could be killed if you had the technique.
I also went back and played some Agucho... killed some owls, got the torch, and proceeded to accidentally burn myself with it. Had fun doing it, though.
Then I played about a half hour worth of money match, not in an evaluation sense, just cuz it is fun. I wonder if the author(s) post on this forum, and if so, who they are.
#10961 - DekuTree64 - Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:12 pm
| KashinKoji wrote: |
| I looked at the voting, and I'm surprised there aren't more votes (only 102 last I checked, out of 1400 or so registered forum members) and I'm surprised by how much people loved sushi. |
I'd guess most of the other members haven't gotten around to trying them all yet, that's why I didn't vote until today.
I did like Sushi, but I got to thinking about it, and if it had ugly characters instead of super-cute cats, it'd be pretty boring. Its whole secret to success is in the design and graphics, rather than the gameplay/technical achievement. Not that the gameplay isn't solid and well polished, it's just a little too common.
Money Match did keep me playing the longest. Lots of fun, and it probably would have gotten my vote if I had another GBA to try the 2 player mode. The only problem I had with it is the technical and graphical simplicity. Since it's a competition between amateur coders, I think the programming difficulty should play a big part too. The sprites are cute, but it needed pretty backgrounds instead of a big black box. Still, it was the one I had the most fun playing.
And Rex: New Mission got my vote, cause it's fun, solid, has good graphics and music, and seemed like it wouldn't get as many votes as it deserved. I still haven't gotten very far in it, but definately a good game.
Too bad there weren't many demos though. I did Eternity, but I was expecting at least 5 or 10 killer demos to compete against. Oh well, I always wanted to make a demo anyway, so I'm happy now^^
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#10962 - Lord Graga - Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:28 pm
@DekuTree64:
Eternity was a great demo to watch, it had a lot of nifty things that I liked. I could have lived without those trees in the start of the demo, but everything else was nicely arranged :)
#10969 - funkeejeffou - Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:14 am
For me, Sushi the cat is really above all the rest, it has nice graphics, nice animations, nice gameplay and no boring music. Good luck to the team!
Of course, there are a lot of other cool entries in the game category.
Yes, it is sad that there are no more entries than that in the demo category, and two of thems are really weird (I won't say wich one ;-).
Anyway, as I've coded BorderLine engine, I'm a little bit disappointed by the vote results, but thanks to those who voted for me, I appreciate.
Good luck to everyone who entered the compo.
Cheers
#10970 - Lord Graga - Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:17 am
@funkeejeffou:
Your engine is a great start, I look forward to see some updates ;)
You'll probably hit the 1st or 2nd place with it, since it's a nice little feat. Is it a real BSP file that you loaded?
#10972 - funkeejeffou - Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:21 pm
Thanks lord graga.
It is quake1 original bsp file format. The level choosen for the compo is DM4.bsp.
Everything is rendered using the advantages of the bsp tree, and all textures and polygones are the original ones. It uses also the PVS that quake uses (it determines wich room are visible from another one, wich avoids treating a big mass of useless poly), the PVS is RLE encoded, and it is decompressed in real time for each frame.
The sound loop has been made by a friend of mine, I just converted it to signed 8bitt (and filtered it) and used 2 timers in parallel of DMA1 transfer and an IRQ to loop it.
My only regret is collision detection. I had never implemented one, and this my first try. So it is some time buggy : the fact that a BSP tree is used (to reduce collision tests) and that polygones are of n vertex (n >= ), and finally everything is in ASM; made the whole thing a little bit hard for me. It was done in three days, and I'm planning to make a fully functiunnal collision detection + response very soon.
Enough talking :)
Your demo is great, hopefully there is yours. And it would have been really better to have more good entries in this section, the competition would have been more challenging and interesting.
Cheers
PS : Anybody interested in creating a nice and fast 3D game for the GBA, please, feel free to contact me.
#10984 - Sweex - Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:53 pm
What timezone are you all in? Because it's definately 19h the 22nd of September here in England and I'm dieing to see the judges' results!:-)
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#10987 - DekuTree64 - Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:13 pm
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. it's 13h here in central USA, and I'm pretty sure 19h GMT, which is what the contest deadline was gonig by, but either way it's definately not Sunday anymore...
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#10989 - SimonB - Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:50 pm
still waiting for two of the judges to hand me their votes...results might be online on tuesday, althought it will probably be later as we need to speak about the demo category situation. I will post more info as soon as I can.
#10997 - KashinKoji - Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:07 am
Hi Simon,
When the results are posted are we going to see any insight into the judge's criteria and rationale? Will we see the individual scores or just the final results?
#11000 - SimonB - Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:13 am
KashinKoji: you will be able to see how each judge voted and also comments on each entry.
#11003 - Lord Graga - Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:06 am
| SimonB wrote: |
| KashinKoji: you will be able to see how each judge voted and also comments on each entry. |
Now that is what I would like to hear, critique!
#11009 - funkeejeffou - Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:03 am
That 's cool !
Another question : Are the judges coders?
#11010 - SimonB - Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:36 am
funkeejeffou: not all but most
#11022 - Stroff - Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:52 pm
[quote="SimonB"]KashinKoji: you will be able to see how each judge voted and also comments on each entry.[/quote]
That's excellent to hear... and maybe even a first for GBA compos!
For many developers, I suspect that feedback is arguably just as valuable as the prizes.
#11060 - CaptainCosmic - Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:46 pm
So why isn't there any news about the winners? What's up, judges?
#11068 - Lord Graga - Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:32 pm
| CaptainCosmic wrote: |
| So why isn't there any news about the winners? What's up, judges? |
Since there was only such a few demo entries, then ALL demo's would recive a price, and that's not really fair when compared to the games entry.
So there is some thoughts about how to handle it all.
#11070 - SimonB - Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:53 pm
yes exactly as LordGraga said.....we need to figure out how to handle the demo category situation so we know which prizes to move over to the game category etc...
#11071 - Lord Graga - Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:59 pm
| SimonB wrote: |
| yes exactly as LordGraga said.....we need to figure out how to handle the demo category situation so we know which prizes to move over to the game category etc... |
How would peoples like it if the results was made public without the prizes?
#11072 - wizardy - Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:33 pm
I don't care about the prizes, but please post the results!
#11076 - Stroff - Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:58 pm
[quote="Lord Graga"][quote="CaptainCosmic"]So why isn't there any news about the winners? What's up, judges?[/quote]Since there was only such a few demo entries, then ALL demo's would recive a price, and that's not really fair when compared to the games entry.
So there is some thoughts about how to handle it all.[/quote]
My two cents: it would be less "fair" to change the rules after the contest deadline. If the rules indicate that the top 5 entries in each category will get a prize, and a category happened to only get 5 entries, then so be it.
Look at it this way: if all the entries in the demo category were amazing, I doubt anyone would be having a problem following the announced judging criteria/prize scheme.
The best thing might be to just learn from mistakes the next time a contest is announced, and provide either more flexibility for the compo organizers in the stated rules, or do away with the demo category altogether.
#11078 - SimonB - Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:55 pm
Stroff: actually I think the rules already are quite flexible...
The judges and/or gbadev.org can reject any demo/game that we feel does not meet the rules.
We also reserve the right to reject demos/games for any reason should the judges and/or
gbadev.org agree that a sertain demo/game would not be appropriate to post on gbadev.org.
#11085 - Stroff - Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:54 pm
[quote="SimonB"]Stroff: actually I think the rules already are quite flexible...
[i]The judges and/or gbadev.org can reject any demo/game that we feel does not meet the rules.
We also reserve the right to reject demos/games for any reason should the judges and/or
gbadev.org agree that a sertain demo/game would not be appropriate to post on gbadev.org.[/i][/quote]
I understand your point and appreciate the difficulty in your situation.
However, nothing about the demos in question explicitly breaks a written rule. And all entries have already been posted to gbadev.org.
Disqualifying an entry because it isn't particularly interesting or impressive just seems like odd thing to do, but you guys can of course do what you want. The upcoming PDRoms contest actually has a rule like that - "if a game is too simple we will disqualify it."
Needless to say, as the first PayPal donator, to this compo, I just felt like offering my take on the situation.
#11090 - CaptainCosmic - Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:37 pm
I think the winners in the game category should at least be posted even if the prize situation isn't cleared up yet. This is what everybody is anxiously waiting for.
#11093 - KashinKoji - Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:04 pm
| Stroff wrote: |
I understand your point and appreciate the difficulty in your situation.
However, nothing about the demos in question explicitly breaks a written rule. And all entries have already been posted to gbadev.org.
Disqualifying an entry because it isn't particularly interesting or impressive just seems like odd thing to do, but you guys can of course do what you want. The upcoming PDRoms contest actually has a rule like that - "if a game is too simple we will disqualify it."
Needless to say, as the first PayPal donator, to this compo, I just felt like offering my take on the situation. |
You have a valid point, but with only a handful of entries in the demo category it seems like an awful lot of prizes to hand out on what amounts to winning because of a technicality. Also, the paypal prize is totally out of the judges' hands, unless some entries are being considered dq'd for planting votes or something.
I'm sure the judges are trying to come up with a fair interpretation, if we can all just be patient a little longer... If it comes down to somebody getting a nice prize for a minimal amount of work, well lucky him, But put "mountain" into the game category, where it technically could go, and it is probably not going to finish very high in the ranks. But then again, maybe I am wrong, a lot of people voted for the mountain demo, more than the "fire" demo, which looked pretty cool to me...
#11117 - SimonB - Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:38 pm
I wish I had added something in the rules about this but frankly,
I was expecting at least 15 demos so I didnt think anything like
this would happen. And to give 200$+ a 256mbit XG-Flash to
for example "fire demo" (im not saying its not good) is not really
fair if you compare to the game section. Also, the runner up in
the demo category will (most likely) get a much better prize than
the runner up in the game category since it was much easier to
get a higher score in the demo category. But we could always speak
to the people who entered the demo category and see if they would
consider moving some of the prizes over to the game category.
But bleh...fuckit, I cant be arsed to spend this whole weekend on
the compo too so I guess I will just post the results and then we can
sort the prizes in a few days...
#11119 - tepples - Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:14 pm
Can I safely predict a glut of demos in the 2004 compo?
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-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#11121 - DekuTree64 - Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:00 pm
Well, the problem is the reason I decided to enter in the first place was cause I'd always wanted to make a demo, but didn't really have time for it with my RPG. Then I decided if I could make the top 3 I'd get something to make up for the time, so I was determined to win first place out of a whole bunch of demos, and spent 3 months that I could have spent working on the RPG to do it, and now there's no way to know what sort of prize it really deserves.
Maybe you could do like last year's compo and re-score the demos against the games, and spread the demo prizes through the top 6 instead of the top 3 or something so the game people will be happy too.
But I suppose the reason there was a demo category this time is cause judging a demo against a game is kind of like judging a painting against a comic. The painting can be really pretty, but the comic has a story to it to keep you interested for a long time.
What does everyone else think? Sounds like we need to get a good discussion going on this.
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#11127 - KashinKoji - Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:49 pm
Here's a crazy thought. Keep the categories and prizes seperate just like the rules intended, but give everyone who entered the game category a couple weeks to throw together a demo and enter it. That way they at least have an almost fair shot at some of those nice prizes. Not enough time to make a raycasting engine or anything like that, but enough time to make something that could compete.
This probably won't fit with the rules at all, and nobody wants another deadline, but its just a thought.
#11130 - Lord Graga - Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:06 pm
Oh my, this is a somehow sad thing. How could it come to be like this?
I really had expected some more demos, but let us leave it as it is. I think that I will try to come up with a rant. This is thought through as I write it, so it might not have a head or a tail, etc. It is based on a MATHEMATIC solution which means:
A) It is totaly unfair
B) It is logic
So, demos and games has been submitted, and the judges has placed their votes, including some critiques and comments, but the prizes is still remaining to be "scattered" among the (somehow) smaller mass of demos and games. Here's the prizes:
1000$ USD.
12 F2A USB linkers. (20$ * 12 = 240$)
2 EZ flash 256mbit. (119$ * 2 = 238$)
1 XG flash 128. (80$ * 2 = 160$)
1 XG flash 256. (121$ * 1 = 121$)
TOTAL: 1759$
Since there was ~5 times as many games as demos, then I suggest that:
Games category gets 5 "parts" = TOTAL 1466$
Demos category gets 1 "part" = TOTAL 293$
Games could have:
833$
1 EZFlash 256mbit
1 XG Flash 256mbit
1 XG Flash 128mbit
12 F2A USB linkers
Demos could have:
167$
1 EZFlash 256mbit
Totally evil way of doing it!
#11132 - Stroff - Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:32 pm
| Quote: |
Since there was ~5 times as many games as demos, then I suggest that:
Games category gets 5 "parts" = TOTAL 1466$
Demos category gets 1 "part" = TOTAL 293$
|
That sounds reasonable, but you could argue that it is unfair to a guy like DekuTree64, who wrote a kickass demo. He probably spent far more time and blood on that than (for example) the people behind "Sushi the Cat."
#11141 - Lord Graga - Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:59 am
| Stroff wrote: |
| Quote: | Since there was ~5 times as many games as demos, then I suggest that:
Games category gets 5 "parts" = TOTAL 1466$
Demos category gets 1 "part" = TOTAL 293$
|
That sounds reasonable, but you could argue that it is unfair to a guy like DekuTree64, who wrote a kickass demo. He probably spent far more time and blood on that than (for example) the people behind "Sushi the Cat." |
You are absolutely correct, and that's why I say: It's a mathematic solution, but it's unfair.
I don't know if it can be used for something, but it might give Simon and his crew some ideas.
#11165 - flindingo - Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:23 pm
Been patient for a week now... Is it just me or is this a little unfair to the game developers? I see the website is getting updated, but absolutely no mention of the compo results. Maybe I'll check back in a month, when a decision can be made.
#11170 - Lord Graga - Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:56 pm
| flindingo wrote: |
| Been patient for a week now... Is it just me or is this a little unfair to the game developers? I see the website is getting updated, but absolutely no mention of the compo results. Maybe I'll check back in a month, when a decision can be made. |
Yeah, that's a way to do it too :)
Just remember that you are unable to manipulate with the judges ;)
#11205 - Sweex - Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:08 am
If you didn't notice it yet; results are on!:-)
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#11222 - funkeejeffou - Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:48 pm
Finally, the results are here...
Well I am a bit disappointed by the demo results...
First, Eternity is by Dekutree64 and BorderLine is by funkeejeffou. I guess that I'm still second though.
I'm awaiting for the comments, and I'd like to understand how can I've been quoted 3rd place by two judges, even if the fire demo is cool, don't you realize the amount of work that there has been for Border_Line. Maybe the collision detection was the reason?
Anyway, life some times sucks, and that is a fact. Please judges, do comment well your ideas cause I'd like to understand why BorderLine couldn't get a first place (none of you placed it 1st). Was it graphical? Was it collision? Was it fact that a demo must be visual and non interactive?
Next time(if there is one), I won't optimize algorithms and 3D theory to its best and I won't try to make a whole 3D engine working in ASM, it is worthless execpt for learning.
Sorry for the post, but I must admit I'm a bit mad of this situation.
#11227 - Stroff - Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:43 pm
[quote="funkeejeffou"]I'd like to understand how can I've been quoted 3rd place by two judges[/quote]
That makes no sense to me, either.
I figured it would be a close call between Borderline and Eternity. Eternity is polished, very pretty, and more of a traditional demo. The onscreen text was a humorous touch. Borderline is arguably every bit as impressive or moreso from a technical perspective, and gets my nod for originality. We've seen many of the effects from Eternity before in last year's compo. But I have not yet seen a FPS demo in any ameture compo.
Firedemo is fun to look at, but frankly it's something that could be written in a few hours by any competant coder. There have been virtually identical demos (open source, even) submitted to gbadev.org in the past.
On the plus side, you did take 2nd, and that's nothing to cry about. Any compo like this is necessarily going to involve a lot of subjectivity. Just because no judge happened to give you a "1st" ranking, doesn't mean that the judges that gave you "2nd" didn't consider it a very close call.
Looking forward to the comments from judges!
#11228 - Gopher - Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:48 pm
I understand why you're upset, funkee, and regarding the judges who gave you 3rd place, I'd agree that's not right. As for why they would palce you 3rd, have to say it's obvious - because it is a port. For some people it wouldn't matter if you ported HL2 to gba, you're only getting so much credit for doing a port.
But you ask why nobody put you first and then answered your own question
> Next time(if there is one), I won't optimize algorithms and 3D theory to its best and I won't try to make a whole 3D engine working in ASM
Border_line isn't really a demo, it's an engine. If you'd made even a relatively simple game out of it, it very probably could've won the games category. but you were working on an engine, and an engine demo isn't exactly what demo competitions are looking for.
Don't take it as an attack, I was impressed, and I'm sure the judges who voted you second were also impressed.
> [edit] ... to make a whole 3D engine working in ASM, it is worthless execpt for learning.
First of all, 'worthless except for learning' seems like a pretty silly thing to say to me, but I'll let it pass since you're ticked off and presumably not thinking clearly. Instead of complaining, get the bugs out of your collision and build a game with your engine and enter it in the games category of the pdroms competition.
I will say this, though, the game you make shouldn't be quake, or a pale copy of it, or you'll end up in the same situation - the pdroms compo comments in the rules specifically that ported code is values less than original code.
_________________
"Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. The first is debatable." -Albert Einstein
#11234 - DekuTree64 - Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:29 pm
Yeah, I was pretty confused by those results too, I can imagine how much work must have been put into that to do it in pure ASM. I only did the inner loops of mine in ASM and even that was pretty hard. Like Gopher said, what it's missing is content. Making an engine is hard work and takes a long time, but I think that it's not quite as much as it takes to create all the character models, worlds, textures for everything, sound effects, music, enemy attacks and AI, menus, weapons for the player, any tools you need to bring it all together, and anything else it takes to create a whole game.
It may not have seemed like it, but my demo did have quite a bit more than just programming in it, and I think the judges recognized that. The model of the girl took a good while to make, and there was the fish, the trees and mountains for that semi-boring scrolling scene (^^), the background for the cube took a couple hours, and writing the song for it took a few days, even though it's just a MOD version of an old MIDI song that I recorded from actual keyboard playing.
What I'm trying to say is that nomatter how technically impressive something is (which yours certainly was, and probably even moreso if you decide to release the source), it won't capture people without some sort of artistry. Code is where you show your knowledge and ability, the art is where you show your spirit (though I do think that programming is an art itself, it's just not as appearent). You just have to balance your time between writing super-optimized code and making stuff to do with it.
You don't have to let all your work go to waste though, make a game with your engine, and enter it in another compo. Or just do it for fun, that's what it's really all about.
_________________
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The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#11238 - KashinKoji - Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:43 pm
DekuTree, I don't think he is talking about his demo being better than your demo, that is definitely a judgement call..., and a tight one. What he is talking about is his demo being better than the "fire" demo, which is definitely true, without a doubt. Purely on the amount of effort required alone, all originality and graphical look aside, it is way beyond "fire". And even on those levels, fire holds nothing over his 3d engine at all. I'm eager to see how the judges justify many of the decisions they made.
I was happy with where I placed, the games that ranked ahead of TradeWinds overall were games that I liked, and each had something that it lacked, be it polish, music, a clean bright look, or a simplistic control design, but there was one judge that gave me a 0. A 0! Compared to 3rd or 4th from every other judge, one puts me dead last. Figure that one out funkyjeffrou, and combined with your own particular case, I think we can both agree that the judges have a lot of confused contestants to placate in their comments.
Next contest, if I enter, I'm going to forget about designing some kind of original game and focus on cute sprites.
#11242 - Stroff - Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:40 pm
[quote]but there was one judge that gave me a 0. A 0! Compared to 3rd or 4th from every other judge, one puts me dead last.[/quote]
I'm glad I sat this compo out - it's interesting being able to look at the results from outside.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that it's really nice having a breakdown per judge. This is IMO a huge improvement over previous contests which only listed a total score.
It seems that a quirky original game like Tradewinds is likely to get a range of responses, wheras a generic game in a well-established genre (i.e. "platform game") is more apt to get consistant scores.
I hope no one takes this as a sign that they should stick with boring genres in a future contest... this might be a safer bet, but I like to think that all things being equal, the more original title will have an edge, providing it has a big enough "fun factor."
#11256 - funkeejeffou - Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:41 am
Your answers makes me feel better, thanks all of you.
I think that most of us are waiting for the judges' comments, the results are here and I do not care anymore, but I'd like to understand so that I won't do two times the same error(or I would realize that an as***le is talking to me ;-).
Yes Deku, I agree, I only did code in my "demo" and did not do any graphic design. There are many reasons for that :
I'm not talented in computer drawing and do not know how to use any graphic software : so I needed a graphist or I should have done what I did, recycle graphics. Finding a good 3D graphist able to do nice and low polys textured models that can be illuminated by a single 256 colors palette (Border Line is Mode4) is VERY VERY RARE. Besides it would have taken too much time. BorderLine engine has been ASM coded in 17 days if I remember well, and about 10 days have been taken to correctly rip quake1 data. I couldn't afford loosing time finding a good graphist then working with him, but I'll do it for another compo (there is a message here...).
Plus, quake1 has its graphical data stored in a BSP tree + has a PVS(Potential Visible Set), wich all are precalculated and speeds up the rendering process by a 20 factor. BorderLine needed that, but if a graphist can design well, I'll do all the map compiling utilities (same message...).
Quake1 is free to use, it is a "gift" from ID software so I used it, and I learnt a lot thanks to them.
Last reason, I like coding, it is my passion and I do not want to design at all. One can only be good at his work if he only focuses on a single domain. As graphic design is an art in itself and requires independant skills, I will never design. It is a choice.
@Gopher
Complaining is not in my nature, it was just that I was a little bit mad. Of course, I'm coding for me cause I wanna be a game developper. So I learned ASM thanks to gbadevforum and borderline, and I learned BSP tree theory and how to do powerfull parsers in C thanks to quake1.
BorderLine is dead now, the engine is thrown and I'm gonna begin a new one, I think I'll make a "wipe out" style game (anyone interested?).
@Deku
I liked your demo, even if I thought that the image used for bumpmapping wasn't artistically well choosen (look at the previous demo winner), and that the lava lamp was really slow on hardware.
I think that for the scrolling trees, everybody agrees ;-)
Sky was great by the way, If you release the source please tell me.
Also, is the last animation with the cube uses screen captures of the animated effects (so that each texture is animated as a succession of 5 or more images?). You did a good job, and congratulations (sincerely). See ya next compo.
@Kashinkoji
| Quote: |
| Next contest, if I enter, I'm going to forget about designing some kind of original game and focus on cute sprites. |
No no, keep on the good work, you were a friend of mine favorite game and I've putted you 2nd. Originality theorically primes when you enter a game compo, so keep it. Sushi was very clean (sprites, sound, animation, gameplay...). It was this coherence that makes it win I think. Good luck !
@Finally Stroff
| Quote: |
| Firedemo is fun to look at, but frankly it's something that could be written in a few hours by any competant coder |
YES!!! Besides, there is any artistic creation either here, so what the funk?
There are cool persons on this forum, thank you again.
Cheers
#11267 - DekuTree64 - Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:33 pm
Holy lord, 17 days!? Sometimes I wonder if everyone else is incredibly fast, or if I'm just incredibly slow. And I think it's the latter...
As for your questions, that bumpmap was actually just a filler to see if it worked, I ran out of time to make a full image + background. It's in mode4, but I'd planned on using sprites to add a background for it to shine on.
The sky was completely procedural, no graphics at all, aside from the title, and the text which is a 1-bit 16x16 font which I render to sprite mem at the start. It's cool, cause you can render it in 8x8 too, and add the dropshadow on the final version, so it's just like you have 2 fonts for the price of one. The lightning is done by moving a single sprite (or 2, or 4, depending on how many branches are on one line) down the screen on HBlank, wiggling it back and forth according to a table.
And the things on the cube are actually running. All the effects used on it are resolution-independent. Except of course the filler image side. But I figured that could represent the 3D model and was better than nothing^_^'
And yes, the source is free. You can dowload it from my site at http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/deku/program/eternity-source.zip
Beware, it's not cleaned up at all, that's just how it was when I finished at 9am after working on it all night the last day...
_________________
___________
The best optimization is to do nothing at all.
Therefore a fully optimized program doesn't exist.
-Deku
#11618 - Stroff - Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:11 pm
Are these still going to be posted?
#11707 - Sweex - Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:40 am
I've received my F2A USB linker this morning. Working like a charm!
Thanks to all, it's been good fun!:-)
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If everything fails, read the manual: If even that fails, post on forum!
#11708 - SimonB - Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:45 am
Stroff: yeah I have been waiting for Acey to send in his comments but he doesnt seem to care about it (I have reminded him several times since the compo) so I decided to put up the comments from the other 4 judges and post Acey's comments if he ever finishes them.