#11469 - poslundc - Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:34 am
I just heard about this thing today. Just goes to show how up on the times I am.
So what's the skinny on this contraption? I've sifted through Nokia's pages but haven't come up with very much fruitful, except that it has a 104 MHz ARM processor (which raised an eyebrow in comparison with the GBA's 16 MHz ARM), yet seems to be very scant as far as dedicated graphics hardware goes (which raised the other eyebrow).
At first glance, it looks like they've traded the dedicated 2D hardware for a faster processor, which would explain why 3D titles (most notably Tomb Raider) are being featured on their website. I wouldn't mind an editorial or two on how good this tradeoff actually is...
Has anyone seen one of these things? Is it going to be putting Nintendo out of the handheld business anytime soon?
I'm not keen on shelving my GBA efforts, but I've noticed that Nokia has a dev competition going on with a 30,000 euro prize (don't know what that is in local currency, but it's bound to be something decent). I highly doubt I could pick it all up in time for the deadline on my own (end of January), but if one or two people wanted to team up with me it might be worthwhile.
Dan.
#11474 - tepples - Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:45 am
GMR magazine says skip it. It's too clunky to handle (you have to disassemble the thing to switch game cards and then go through seven menu screens to start the game). The graphics are nice (think the left half of a PS1 screen), but the GBA has seen near-PS1 graphics in some demos such as the Yeti Engine (granted, at a lower resolution).
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#11476 - Dev - Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:33 am
Read the fine print regarding their dev. competition -- especially paragraph 12 (or thereabouts)
Dev.
#11479 - NoMis - Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:08 am
I don't think that the N-Gage will ever have a chance against the gba. The graphics meight be better, but thats normal because it's newer. But what sells a console are the games. And the gba has a lot of brilliant games like golden sun, metroid fusion, advance wars, ....
Second thing. the n-gage isn't very handy. the cart change is unhandy and the keypad also.
NoMis
#11481 - Lord Graga - Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:55 am
Ngage is a flop.
The reason of this is, that Nokia seems to go for 3d for 3d's sake, not for the gameplays sake. That is why Nintendo stands so strong: They do not limit themself when it comes to hardware, but they don't try to break any limit's either. This makes the games more fluid and welcome in the gamers heart. Nokia goes like "OHH MY! Look! We can do 3d, and the gba can't do that as good as us!"
True.
But have they realised what they are actually sending on the market? I guess not.
NGage is a machine that fails because it's dedicated to hardware power. Harware power is good, but not crusial for gaming. Games for Ngage will only become "showoff's", and not real games, were the story is important. I doubt that there will come any RPG's for NGage, as Ngage is simply meant for a quick game, and not something spectacular like "Golden Sun".
>"It's a mobile phone!"
YES!
>"And who would like to play on mobile phones?"
Not me.
GBA is for gaming, and you can use NGage as a phone. That's it.
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#11484 - Paul Shirley - Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:34 pm
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#11485 - poslundc - Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:12 pm
Well, thanks everyone for setting me straight on that one.
Now it's back to my GBA... at least until the next new product rears its ugly head. :P
Dan.
#11521 - NoMis - Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:20 pm
| Paul Shirley wrote: |
| Stop worrying about NGages effect on GBA, Sony are the real threat. They will destroy the GBA. Possibly more of a mercy killing... |
*lol*, I don't think nintendo will be beaten this easy in the handheld market.
NoMis
#11522 - Paul Shirley - Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:04 pm
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#11528 - tepples - Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:58 pm
Yeah, but did the PS1 get a 3/10 from a console gaming magazine?
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#11545 - NoMis - Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:36 pm
| Paul Shirley wrote: |
No-one thought they would be beaten in the console market till the PS1 whipped the N64... |
that's true, but Nintendo won't make the same mistake twice.
NoMis
#11546 - Sweex - Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:44 pm
I can't say the GameCube is doing really well.:-(
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#11731 - superx10 - Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:07 am
don't get the n-gage. sure it may be a phone, but other than that it looks like it sucks. a 1.5x2" screen isnt that great for games that are usually played on a 17" monitor. Plus, it's only available with t-mobile service. And, alas, it looks like a plastic taco.
(sorry if i'm typing poorly, i haven't slept in like 3 days)
check this out instead:
http://www.tapwave.com/
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#11736 - Lord Graga - Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:49 am
I have just recently returned from England, where I tried a Ngage, and my wise words is:
* Sucky buttons (especially the DPAD).
* Bad reaction time.
* Plastic like games. (I only tried Tomb Raider and Pandemonium).
So, in short: Don't buy NGage
#11737 - poslundc - Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:29 pm
Well, it seems to me that just about any company can attach an LCD to the latest ARM processor... it will probably take more than a good design to be the new handheld console king, though.
It occurs to me that since all these new competing brands are all ARM processors, the winner might be the one that lets you play the games for the other models. This gets difficult when some of them (like the tapwave) start adding customized video hardware, but if you stay on top of it you could probably clean the competition's clocks. It should also, of course, emulate the GBA's 2D hardware, which shouldn't be too difficult for a 200 MHz ARM to do.
Dan.
#11856 - dredd - Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:46 pm
the n-gage rocks.
it isnt a gaming machine its a phone with endless capabilities.
its got:
mp3 player on it
/plays movies
/has a good os system
/has a built in radio
/can play games
/can make calls on it
/can download games
/can play wireless bluetooth multiplayer and play multiplayer on the internet
/uses mmc cards so yyou can have 512mb storage/screen is crystal clear/
/has loads of software for it
/mp3 as ringtones
/great 3d graphics
/removable covers
/backlight
/great hardware that most handhleds Dont have.
what more could you want atm its the ultimate thing to have.
#11857 - niltsair - Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:26 pm
It got a bundle load of features, but does it really excel at any of them?
For a cellphone its seems a little ackward, but i wouldn't know for sure, haven't tried the thing.
Gaming console wise :
-It has an ackward screen size.
-Control are so-so (from what I've heard)
-Ackward to switch game cartridge
But most importantly, I dunno if it'll make it as a long term console. I think a lot of people are worried about if it'll still be on the scene in 1-2 years, thus preventing them from buying it (especially when you consider it's price).
The Zodiak by tapwave (that's been posted previously) look really good though. Gaming wise, it seems to be a better platform than the GBA (Control, Screen, etc...) There's still the problem to see if it can last or just fade away.
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#11930 - marcmccann - Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:37 am
now that tapwave is one impressive peice of kit, Shame it will never take off though. Espacially over here in england.
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#11937 - poslundc - Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:15 pm
| marcmccann wrote: |
| now that tapwave is one impressive peice of kit, Shame it will never take off though. Espacially over here in england. |
I think that deep down we all know it will tank... but can anyone really say why?
Is it the lack of a big-name company (ie. Sony, Nintendo, M$) behind it?
Is it the big price tag? (As I recall, it was the $400 price tag that caused the Turbo Express to fail, even though it was lightyears ahead of the Gameboy and could actually play the carts for the Turbo Grafix 16.)
Is it this ominous sense that they won't get the developer commitment they need, probably because of the first two reasons?
I ask these questions because it really is an impressive-looking console... kind of like the N-Gage, but done right.
The GBA's 16 MHz ARM is far inferior to what's out there today... but then again, the GB outlasted consoles far superior as well. It'd be nice to have a better understanding as to why.
Dan.
#11938 - niltsair - Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:30 pm
Yeah, the Zodiak from tapwave is something i'd care to own if I wasn't feeling it'd flop :-/
I think it's the lack of a big name that says it'll be there for a while, contribute to commerical failure in a vicious circle.
But the thing with the Zodiak is that you could still use it as a regular Palm, and thus play Palm games too (I supppose), so even though it might flop as a gaming, it wouldn't be a total waste, thus perhaps making viable... Mmmm, they should realy push that aspect in their PR, own it has access to the already Palm extensive library.
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#11939 - DekuTree64 - Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:28 pm
I think the price is a big problem with the Zodiac. It's an impressive system, but you could have a GBA and a huge pile of games for the same price. Maybe people would buy it if it was by Nintendo, but I don't know many people who'd pay $400 for an off-brand^_^
Plus I think one of the reasons the GBA has done so well is simply how much fun it is to develop for. It's like a flashback to the days of the SNES, so all the people that played games back then (such as myself) are old enough to make their own games now, and have similar system to play with.
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#11940 - Lord Graga - Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:29 pm
@dredd:
/mp3 player on it
I can't see why it's so nice to have a MP3 player. I got tinitus because of one :P
/plays movies
But wouldn't you rather wait until you got home... and it would take too much battery too.
/has a good os system
It's a standard phone OS, it's nothing super.
/has a built in radio
Yeah, but does it make it good for everyone? Most radio is only mainstream or old music...
/can play games
There's a lot of handheld devices that can do it a lot better.
/can make calls on it
w00t! I didn't even know (okay, that's 1 positive thing)
/can download games
So can you do with any other gaming system and newer mobile phone.
/can play wireless bluetooth multiplayer and play multiplayer on the internet
GBA can do bluetooth too. It might not be over the internet, but still...
/uses mmc cards so yyou can have 512mb storage
That's allright...
/screen is crystal clear
I agree, it is
/has loads of software for it
Sure it might have loads of software, but that's actually a bad thing.
/mp3 as ringtones
That's allright... If I would have one I would make it fart... :P
/great 3d graphics
Not at all. The 3d graphics is worse than a Playstation, and at that resolution, it lacks of antialiasing and lots of other things.
/removable covers
GBA has that too...
/backlight
-||-
/great hardware that most handhleds Dont have.
GBA: Great wellwritten software and hardware functions. Much more fun to code.[/quote]
#12040 - blindfold - Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:06 pm
one thing....
if it's ARM, and has some GFX unit, it can EASY emulate GBA, this means, that you can have about 50 games on this thing.
just imagine any GBA emulator on PC, but with perfect CPU emulation (well no emulation, to be precise), and with a lot power left for increasing the rest what's left!
just wait for someone who will take any GBA emulator for PC, little upgrade/improve/change it and you know the killer of GBA!
PS. don't have a thing, so don't treat me like heretic... just that's a fact!
#12046 - tepples - Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:31 am
| blindfold wrote: |
| if it's ARM, and has some GFX unit, it can EASY emulate GBA |
How would it account for the different memory maps of the different ARM architectures, or for I/O registers? You'd need full-scale virtualization for that, and without an MMU, that's [H]ard.
Besides, N-Gage graphics is a dumb frame buffer, and it's not as wide as the GBA screen, so something's going to get cut off. Scaled mode isn't as applicable because of the big difference in screen aspect ratio.
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#12059 - blindfold - Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:58 pm
as for ARM architecture, they are all scalable backwards....
| Quote: |
| In order to maintain backwards compatibility, ARMv6 also includes ARMv5 compilant memory management and exception handling. (...) The introduction of a new architecture does not replace existing architectures, or make them redundant. Where provisions of ARMv4 or ARMv5 meet market needs, new cores and derivative products will continue to be based on these architectures, (...) For example, the ARM7TDMI core based on V4T architecture is still..... |
From the ARM White Paper. But OK, I didn't got into details, for now.
as for screen size, true, maybe screen can be rotated?
#12060 - NoMis - Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:14 pm
and how would you play with a rotatet screen? The thing would be more dificult to handle than it already is.
NoMis
#12063 - tepples - Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:05 pm
| blindfold wrote: |
| as for ARM architecture, they are all scalable backwards.... |
This pertains to instruction, memory, and exception handling within the core. The memory map lies outside the core, on the other side of the memory controller. How do you expect to be able to run GBA software on a machine where, for example, BIOS sits in the 0x02000000-0x02ffffff area that corresponds to the GBA's EWRAM? It's the same reason you can't run Atari 2600 software on a Nintendo Entertainment System: though they both use the 6502 instruction set, the surrounding hardware is just too different.
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#12089 - poslundc - Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:20 am
Theoretically, though, it should be much easier to write an emulator. You could trap all of the load/store instructions and replace them with macros equivalent to the effect they would have on the GBA's hardware.
This is all just spinning ideas, however. I don't know how practical any of it is.
Dan.
#12497 - dagamer34 - Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:34 am
The only real winner is the company that makes the ARM series processor!!
Now, let's not bad-mouth a system most of us haven't played yet. Until we do, let's not go trash-talking. Heck, it might be the best thing since the gameboy!!(i STRONGLY doubt it)
Hmm... the N-Gage... not a serious threat .... the Zodiac ... also not a serious threat ... the PSP .... TROUBLE(i think).
Suddenly all these new handhelds come out. But what about cost?? And the real playability??? Its like cramming 20 different features into a phone and it only runs for 10 minutes!!!!
Some companies need to slow down and take the Nintendo approach. Don't use new technology unless it is efficient, NOT fast.
One last thing to make my point clear. Sure Nintendo could have come up with some $200 dollar Game-Boy with color when the Game Gear came out but they stuck with the good old original. Notice when they did surpass the Game Gear in quality it also used less batteries. Of course, there isn't a back light so here comes the GBA SP.
6 batteries (Game Gear) vs. 2 batteries (GBA) or Lithium Ion battery (GBA SP)
YOU DECIDE
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#12543 - Paul Shirley - Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:50 pm
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