#20436 - ElectricBirdLand - Tue May 11, 2004 1:30 pm
#20438 - poslundc - Tue May 11, 2004 1:46 pm
I wonder if viewing angles will be a problem.
But hey... they finally realized how stupid they were to put only two buttons (instead of four) on the controller! (I assume it still has the shoulder buttons.)
Dan.
#20440 - NoMis - Tue May 11, 2004 1:54 pm
4 front buttons are a nice thing. Where's the image from??
Just a few days and we'll see if its a fake.
NoMis
#20448 - Sweex - Tue May 11, 2004 3:53 pm
It doesn't look very convenient if it still has the shoulder buttons to me...
About the two screens. The main screen surely is a lot nicer to look at having no hud/overlay at all. All the game info is displayed on the bottom screen. But, is this good or not? Can you check the game's status while you're playing the game or do you have to tilt your head slightly?
_________________
If everything fails, read the manual: If even that fails, post on forum!
#20451 - ampz - Tue May 11, 2004 4:31 pm
Sweex: I can see lots of great uses for the two screens:
Pinball games - No scrolling needed.
Flight simulator - Airplane controles are typically below the windshield.
Racing games - Again, instruments in a car are typically below the windshield.
I don't see why you would have to tilt your head to look at the bottom screen.
I think it looks like the picture might be rendered..
#20452 - DiscoStew - Tue May 11, 2004 4:51 pm
Story at PlanetGameCube
- two 3-inch screens
- one of the screens is touch-sensitive, allowing a stylus to be used to control certain games
- built-in Bluetooth connectivity for wireless gaming
- specs slightly more powerful than the Nintendo 64
- ability to play Gameboy Advance cartridges and Nintendo DS "game cards"
- price point somewhere around $150.
Now I'm definitely getting one. I was hyped before, and now I'm even more hyped. Good thing I didn't by an SP when I had the chance. It makes me wonder, since it will play GBA carts, and rumored specs from before show that it contains a ARM7TDMI CPU like the GBA with probably some hardware similarities, but only faster (still rumor here), would they have set it up so that GBA games would still play normally, but in a sense give games extra processing time, such as more sprite rendering cycles per scanline? Sorry, but I'm having that problem in my own project, and I couln't resist thinking about it.
It looks like a nice layout, especially for those people who have big hands having to try to wrap them around the SP. More hand room! Hey, since it takes both GBA carts and DS cards, I wonder if a person would be able to play a GBA game on the lower screen while watching a movie on the top screen?
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#20453 - mr_schmoe - Tue May 11, 2004 4:54 pm
I think it looks to big and bulky. They needed to have the second screen just lift up, not an intire top half. And I agree with sweex, it might be kind of awkward to have sholder buttons. But we'll wait and see.
#20455 - DiscoStew - Tue May 11, 2004 5:04 pm
They should do something with that extra space on the top portion, like stereo speakers.
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#20458 - tepples - Tue May 11, 2004 6:46 pm
| NoMis wrote: |
| Where's the image from?? |
What probability would you guess that USA Today would print a fake in such an article?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#20475 - SimonB - Tue May 11, 2004 10:07 pm
ok, krom and I are back from the Nintendo press thingie. we have uploaded
a few pictures on the main page but have loads more...and movies, we just
need to drive to the convention center to pick up our badges first.
Have fun!
#20476 - NoMis - Tue May 11, 2004 10:28 pm
Wow, Amazing! You guys saw the Metroid and Mario on the DS. This is a hell of an handheld. W-Lan Multiplayer with up to 16 players over 50 meter, voice control, one screen is a touchscreen, ...
Soooo Nice!
NoMis
#20478 - ampz - Tue May 11, 2004 10:39 pm
The WiFi stuff... is it bluetooth, 802.11b, or something nonstandard?
One of the pictures on the main page shows the DS game card. There are 17 visible contacts on it. Are there more contacts on the other side?
If there are only 17 contacts, then that is pretty much proof that the cards are block adressed. ie. code is not executed from the cards but from internal RAM. This would make sense.
#20480 - SmileyDude - Tue May 11, 2004 11:31 pm
I'm curious about the GBA compatibility myself. They seem to be neglecting to mention anything regarding compatibility with the GB/GBC games. Will they still be compatible?
Another interesting tidbit I found on the Nintendo.com page for the DS is that developers will be able to use the GBA cart port as an accessory port for DS games. I wonder if the DS is really just an expansion of the GBA hardware, ala GBC? Would be nice if the extra hardware is also available to games distributed on GBA carts (for example, a GBA game could detect if it was on the DS, and if so, use the bottom screen for something).
_________________
dennis
#20481 - ampz - Tue May 11, 2004 11:58 pm
Unlikely.
The DS has two separate CPUs. ARM7 and ARM9
#20508 - Sweex - Wed May 12, 2004 9:01 am
ampz; Take a PDA and tilt the screen left/right, up/down. You'll see what I mean. The quality of those screens vary a lot.
And as it is a given that the DS has two screen, sure, we might as well do something cool with it. It is certainly not "all wrong", especially with one being touch-screen. Nintendo likes to do things differently, that's for sure. It might work, it might not. Time will tell if it is a good rival for the PSP...
_________________
If everything fails, read the manual: If even that fails, post on forum!
#20529 - LOst? - Wed May 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Is this the end for 2d games? ;_;
Nintendo 64 used OpenGL. OpenGL for 2d games are not my favourite.
Tile modes! Sweet tile modes, they have to be left in there!
#20530 - dXtr - Wed May 12, 2004 2:57 pm
I hope not. I rather play a good 2D rpg then a 3D rpg =D
#20532 - SmileyDude - Wed May 12, 2004 3:55 pm
btw.. did nintendo get into any specifics on the DS specs? like screen resolution, CPU speed, RAM?
just trying to get an idea on what to expect from this machine :)
is the 3D hardware accelerated or is it software using the second CPU? I would think it would be hardware, but you never know with Nintendo :)
BTW... I was thinking about the issue of GB/GBC backwards compatibility, and if they go a similar route with the DS as they did with the GBA, they'll end up using the same chip that the GBA used for the GBA functionality (like how the GBA has the same chip that was in the GBC for GBC functionality). Since Nintendo used the GBC chip to provide 4 of the sound channels in the GBA, that means that either Nintendo will have to put that chip in, or move that functionality to either the existing GBA chip or a new chip in the DS.
I'm wondering what the likelyhood that Nintendo will redesign the existing GBA chip -- it just seems safer from an compatibility standpoint to just include the entire GBA/GBC chipset. And if you do that, you might as well offer GB/GBC compatibility.
Any thoughts on that?
BTW -- I'm would be willing to bet that the ARM7 and ARM9 cpus will both be available at the same time -- at least in DS mode. In fact, I'm willing to bet that programming the DS will be very similar to the GBA -- at least for one of the screens. From what I've seen from Nintendo over the past few years, I think that they really want to avoid throwing out what works and instead just build on it. So, just like N64 games can be easily ported to the GCN, I'll bet that moving from GBA development to the DS will be easy as well.
_________________
dennis
#20533 - zazery - Wed May 12, 2004 3:56 pm
From what I've seen of the screenshots, the 2D mode is only a bit more improved compared with the GBA. It doesn't appear to be programmed in 3D to look 2D. I don't know if you have watched the press conference but Nintendo said that developers could choose either 2D or 3D with either screen. Which means you could have 2 2D screens, 2 3D screens, or a combination of them. I don't think it's the end for 2d, just keep in mind you can play GBA games on it as well so they can always make 2D games just like the GBA.
#20536 - DiscoStew - Wed May 12, 2004 4:48 pm
If I read correctly, it can only have the combination of 1 2D and 1 3D between the 2 screens, but it doesn't matter which screen uses what. I think that 2D games will still live on, but perhaps not directly 2D. I consider the N64 game Mischief Makers to be 2D, just for the fact that practically everything is a sprite and/or picture. It uses 3D, but mainly to display the 2D sprites and give them certain attributes like alpha-blending, scaling, rotation, etc.
_________________
DS - It's all about DiscoStew
#20541 - peebrain - Wed May 12, 2004 8:47 pm
Overall I'm am just in awe... but one thing bugs me.
3d? Yeah I know it's awesome and everything, but a D-pad and 3d just don't mix. You gotta have a joystick if you want to do 3d. Yeah yeah yeah, psone, whatever. I don't like it! Give me 2d with D-pad, or 3d with joystick.
It looks a littly clunky, but I'm sure they'll release like a DSSP in another year that is more trimmed down :-P. Kudos on 4 buttons on the right.
~Sean
_________________
http://www.pbwhere.com
#20557 - sgeos - Thu May 13, 2004 2:19 am
| Sweex wrote: |
| Nintendo likes to do things differently, that's for sure. It might work, it might not. Time will tell if it is a good rival for the PSP... |
I like the unit. Software (and battery life) will tell if it is a good rival for the PSP. Has anyone heard anything about the 3D graphics libs for the DS unit?
-Brendan
#20558 - zazery - Thu May 13, 2004 2:29 am
It does run a pretty detailed 3D engine of Metroid Prime: Hunters as well as the Mario remake demo. From what I can tell it has better 3D graphics than the N64 however I don't believe as advanced as Sony's PSP which pushes a lot more hardware power. However I believe the DS has enough 3d power to do most things developers would want. If you want anything more advance then just develop it for the Gamecube. The PSP seems like a portable PS2 to me and nothing new, however the DS seems new because of it's features. It's like Nintendo said, it's not the hardware it's the games. I'm sure more information will follow in the next few days.
#20561 - dXtr - Thu May 13, 2004 2:35 am
one cool and new (?) thing I've read about the psp is that it's going to support NURBS. so I guess the psp is gonna me a really cool thing too. It wont be easy to choose what console to buy ;D
Probably I'm gonna buy both =/
#20571 - Dracula-X - Thu May 13, 2004 6:44 am
Screens are 256x192 each.
Arm7 at 33 mhz.
Arm9 at 67 mhz.
2D modes are still in (probably due to gba compatibility): 4 BGs and 128 OBJS.
#20572 - LOst? - Thu May 13, 2004 8:11 am
| Dracula-X wrote: |
Screens are 256x192 each.
Arm7 at 33 mhz.
Arm9 at 67 mhz.
2D modes are still in (probably due to gba compatibility): 4 BGs and 128 OBJS. |
Okay, good we have the tile modes left. The screen size should be a little bit bigger though. Why not 320x240? I love that resolution. Oh now I know why. 256 is the standard bg size, and they want it to look good with GBA games.
Come on, isn't Arm7 33 MHz what GBA has? Is it possible to use the 2D modes without going into GBA mode? Thereby using 2D mode with arm9.
And OpenGL is not my favourite, but it is after all still very popular. I believe we will have N64 games ported like Mario 64 being called Mario DS. Just like Mario Advance was Super Mario Bros. 2
#20576 - NoMis - Thu May 13, 2004 9:19 am
| LOst? wrote: |
Come on, isn't Arm7 33 MHz what GBA has? Is it possible to use the 2D modes without going into GBA mode? Thereby using 2D mode with arm9. |
yes the gba has an arm7, but only 16.78mhz.
#20593 - tepples - Thu May 13, 2004 3:45 pm
| LOst? wrote: |
| Okay, good we have the tile modes left. The screen size should be a little bit bigger though. Why not 320x240? I love that resolution. Oh now I know why. 256 is the standard bg size, and they want it to look good with GBA games. |
Yeah, but if games in 256-pixel-wide display go into 2D tile mode, they'll have to either 1. use 64x32 tile P.I.T.A. maps (like most Super NES games and those NES games that use V-mirror) or 2. use windows to chop 4 pixels off the left and right sides of the screen (like Kirby Super Star for Super NES and those NES games that use H-mirror). Otherwise, you'll get a tile split across the left and right sides of the screen.
| Quote: |
| And OpenGL is not my favourite |
Would you rather program in Direct3D, which is limited to Microsoft Windows?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#20596 - ampz - Thu May 13, 2004 4:01 pm
OpenGL is the 3D API.
It is open, it is standard, it makes sense (most of the time).
#20601 - Duodreamer - Thu May 13, 2004 4:44 pm
The DS unit looks to be about as powerful as a Nintendo64 in the graphical demos they had on display. Both screens are 3D capable, but I think they only have one 3D processor. The machine is powered like a GBA SP, rechargeable LiIon battery pack. 33MHz for the ARM7 core, which is twice the GBA speed. 66MHz for the ARM9 core, and hardware 3D processing (which doesn't mean much, it could be a very simple OGL implementation) The 3D pikachu and Mario64 demos I saw were quite impressive, even though the Mario64 beta was crashing quite a bit. ;-) The DS is less powerful than the PSP, but a good margin, but its completely solid-state, and better on battery life, I hear. The PSP uses Sony memory sticks or the UMD 2-inch disc cartridges. From the games and music videos they had playing on it, it looks beautiful, but they stress that its not a game machine, but more of a 21st century Walkman, with audio playing and video playing built in. I'll be sure to take detailed pictures at todays show. =)
#20602 - tepples - Thu May 13, 2004 4:59 pm
| Duodreamer wrote: |
| The PSP uses Sony memory sticks or the UMD 2-inch disc cartridges. From the games and music videos they had playing on it, it looks beautiful, but they stress that its not a game machine, but more of a 21st century Walkman, with audio playing and video playing built in. |
It's from Sony, and Sony has a reputation for producing proprietary hardware. Remember that Betamax flopped because at the beginning of the VCR era, Sony refused to license Betamax technology to other companies.
I don't think the PSP will become the next Walkman. The Walkman played existing stereo Compact Cassette media; the PSP plays a new media type. If the "average user" can't write to UMD media, then watch only films from Columbia Pictures (the studio that Sony owns) become available for the overpriced PSP.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#20612 - Dracula-X - Thu May 13, 2004 6:26 pm
| tepples wrote: |
It's from Sony, and Sony has a reputation for producing proprietary hardware. Remember that Betamax flopped because at the beginning of the VCR era, Sony refused to license Betamax technology to other companies.
I don't think the PSP will become the next Walkman. The Walkman played existing stereo Compact Cassette media; the PSP plays a new media type. If the "average user" can't write to UMD media, then watch only films from Columbia Pictures (the studio that Sony owns) become available for the overpriced PSP. |
Beta may have been consumed by VHS, but it is still being used today by professional video outfits. The average user will likely be able to write to the memory sticks the psp incorporates, and play from there.
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://www.electricbirdland.co.uk/ds.jpg){kind=link}