#29164 - Abscissa - Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:12 pm
#29166 - isildur - Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:36 pm
Now you understand why most game companies want dedicated video game loving maniacs. A couple of years ago, I got an interview with a game company where I live and everything went alright until the subject came to "How do you feel about working long hours?". After telling them that I had a family with young children, and that I could not work long hours all the time, the interview cut rather short. I'm pretty sure that was the reason.
Game companies know that there are tons of coders who would sell their soul to work for them, so they take advantage.
You might make a lot more money working as a database oriented developper and will work normal hours.
But, database coding is boring. You won't get the fun and rewarding feeling of saying to your friends "You know that cool game, I worked on it".
Developers should not accept that sort of thing from their employers. Anyways, a tired frustrated coder produces bad code, so they are losing in the end. Maybe not, when they coder isn't performing anymore, they replace him...
#29167 - NoMis - Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:44 pm
Very nice articles.
| isildur wrote: |
But, database coding is boring. You won't get the fun and rewarding feeling of saying to your friends "You know that cool game, I worked on it".
|
Right, but coding one FIFA after another, one NHL after another, ... would be pretty boring to.
I disliked EA for their hardcore profit orinetated way. And now I dislike them even more.
NoMis
#29168 - tepples - Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:02 pm
Are you sure there's much new coding that goes into maintaining the EA annual sports games? I'd guess that much of the time, except when the game comes to a brand new console, the engine builds on that of the previous version. Sega and Disney have recognized this and cut the MSRP of their line of sports games. Would you also bet that Adobe developers get bored of making versions of Photoshop?
_________________
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#29169 - isildur - Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:16 pm
So, I guess coding is boring :-)
What I meant was, working on something millions of people in the world will use and like, versus working on some in house financial database solution.
You don't get the same reaction in a party when you explain to others what you do.
But, if maintaining the same games is boring, why do people work under these conditions? What is the motivation?
#29170 - poslundc - Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:42 pm
| isildur wrote: |
Now you understand why most game companies want dedicated video game loving maniacs. A couple of years ago, I got an interview with a game company where I live and everything went alright until the subject came to "How do you feel about working long hours?". After telling them that I had a family with young children, and that I could not work long hours all the time, the interview cut rather short. I'm pretty sure that was the reason.
Game companies know that there are tons of coders who would sell their soul to work for them, so they take advantage. |
This is part of the whole "starving artist" philosophy that really annoys the heck out of me. Many game companies use adjectives like "passionate" as an excuse to exploit their workers. It is not cool.
Dan.
#29189 - nmcconnell - Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:54 am
Wow - I'm glad this got posted up here.
I actually had a fantastic phone interview with EA in Vancouver this past week. When I was talking to the guy and reading their site, it sounded like an excellent place to work - I even asked the interviewer about overtime and felt reassured by the answer.
I'm going to be a hell of a lot more paranoid if I ever get a second interview. I have always wanted to work making video games, but this sounds hellish. Some of the links make mention of someone somewhere else saying that EA vancouver isn't as bad as other bits of EA, but I can't find anyone actually saying this. Anyone got an informed opinion?
Anyway, this certainly helps to explain why so many passionate video game makers would rather DBA or whatever to pay the bills and then work on their own games as a hobby.
I still find this depressing. . .
#29191 - NoMis - Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:18 pm
The funny thing is, that it's not even effective in any way. There is a limit on how much someone can work without loosing concentration. They will tend up making the same amount of new issues than they solve. Plus the motivation will be gone since you won't be satisfied with your job.
NoMis
#29212 - Miked0801 - Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:28 pm
Motivation isn't a problem for someone under 25 who has the "privledge" of working on games. Until that is fixed, EA (the worst offender, though there are others) will continue putting people through the grist mill (including myself through third party work.)
#29220 - mymateo - Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:54 am
| nmcconnell wrote: |
| Some of the links make mention of someone somewhere else saying that EA vancouver isn't as bad as other bits of EA, but I can't find anyone actually saying this. Anyone got an informed opinion? |
My Uncle John "Juan" Jacyna works/worked at EA Vancouver, so I have a little inside information. Not much, though. He's worked on several games (NHL 98,99, & 2001, and NFS II & HP2 to name a few), and he's been there since at least '97. The last time I saw him, we were talking about making video games (he's the coolest uncle in the world!), and I mentioned a desire to get into that field. Now, if things at EAV were really THAT bad, I'm sure he would have warned me. Instead, he told me if I was really serious, to make a demo reel and he would try to get it submitted.
So we can assume that the Vancouver branch isn't all that bad. It's probably not a walk in the park, it'll have crunches and you'll be stressed, but that's just the nature of the beast whether you make the best union on earth or not. Work is just that... work!
Good noght, and Merry Christmas!
#29226 - Abscissa - Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:44 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| Motivation isn't a problem for someone under 25 who has the "privledge" of working on games. Until that is fixed, EA (the worst offender, though there are others) will continue putting people through the grist mill (including myself through third party work.) |
Probably true in a lot of cases, but not universally. I'm 22 and have been wanting to do game dev since I was around 7, but if I were working in conditions even remotely similar to those, I know for a fact my motivation would drop to zero within the first week.
Although, I know you didn't mean it as literally "*any* developer under 25". I'm sure there are a lot of people that sadly do fit into that.
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't another thing feeding into that problem the common perception of "coding all day and night" being a status symbol and "cool"?
#29236 - keldon - Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:11 pm
| mymateo wrote: |
| Now, if things at EAV were really THAT bad, I'm sure he would have warned me. Instead, he told me if I was really serious, to make a demo reel and he would try to get it submitted. |
Not necessarily! It's been scientifically proven some people don't have the genes that make them balance the amount they give with the amount they recieve.
I think programmers are getting exploited for the following reasons:
- There are far more programmers than job vacancies
- Difficulty to break into the market with little funds with your own team, where your team will probably be extorted for code anyway
- The idea that it will not always get in the way of that important date
- Wish of developing games as a profession outweighs prospect of broken limbs and worn finger-prints
#29242 - mymateo - Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:42 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| mymateo wrote: | | Now, if things at EAV were really THAT bad, I'm sure he would have warned me. Instead, he told me if I was really serious, to make a demo reel and he would try to get it submitted. |
Not necessarily! It's been scientifically proven some people don't have the genes that make them balance the amount they give with the amount they recieve. |
Yes, some people don't have the common sense that tells them that it's time to leave your job when it starts destroying your life. It's really sad. Rest assured, he would have told me 'cause he's that kind of guy. The kind of guy that would tell me that is, no the kind with no common sense.
Who wants ice cream?
#29285 - Akolade - Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:29 pm
I have heard the offices at EA Vancouver are severely cramped, if you aren't a manager that is. Several artists crammed into a cubicle, type thing.
#29286 - keldon - Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:37 pm
| Akolade wrote: |
| I have heard the offices at EA Vancouver are severely cramped, if you aren't a manager that is. Several artists crammed into a cubicle, type thing. |
Yes, and apparently half of the space is taken up by the wash basin and toilet bowl.