#31861 - Lupin - Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:14 pm
I would want to know what you think of the DS, if you own one and if you are going to buy one. I know this can be an endless discussion... but i want to collect some facts.
Pro:
- A lot of functionality like wireless port, touch screen, voice...
- Two Screens
- Organizer/PDA functionality
Contra:
- Weak hardware (CPU and GPU)
- Two Screens (i think using the 2nd screen as touch screen to control the game can be somewhat unpractically)
- System Dimensions
This is meant as some kind of review after the DS got released.
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#31862 - PhoenixSoft - Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:46 pm
| Lupin wrote: |
| Weak hardware (CPU and GPU) |
Surely you can't own one yourself. Once you own one and have spent time playing the games, you can see that the hardware isn't limiting it at all. The games run smoothly and look great.
#31864 - Lupin - Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:28 pm
I think the CPU has something about 166mhz, the PSP CPU has 333mhz... The GP32 had a 133Mhz CPU and there were some GP32s that had a 166 Mhz CPU (i think at gbax.com or something...). The GP32 of course didn't have a GPU but if you just compare the CPUs the DS has almost the same hardware as the GP32 and the GP32 is a quite old device...
From the screenshots that i saw the games don't look good, well they are 3D but it looked like texture precision is not very high (blocky textures) this is also because of the storage of the games (PSPs UMD will be able to store up to 1.8 GB and it has 32 mb RAM so there will be enough room for high resolution textures).
Just compare these 2 screens and you will know what i mean:
http://dsmedia.ign.com/ds/image/article/569/569852/ridge-racer-ds-20041201105153430.jpg
http://www.game-attitude.com/images/maj0176/RRPSP-01.jpg
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#31865 - keldon - Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:51 pm
Okay, graphics wise the PSP smacks the DS over the forehead with barb-wire laced knuckle dusters. Maybe we will see a repeat of the N64, with Nintendo sticking to cartridges and Sony using CD's. The N64 suffered from having carts that couldn't store a great deal of data, which lead to some awful effects.
Having said that, ridge racer with a portable steering wheel sounds nice. Maybe car games might offer controls similar to what Bond had in "Tomorrow Never Dies". So the second screen might offer some good gameplay, although the public would probably just see the PSP's flash graphics and go for that.
#31868 - identitycrisisuk - Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:12 pm
I still don't think the graphics matter as much when at such a small size. When I first saw metroid hunters moving I thought "no way" as I thought it looked as good as MP almost. It's only when you look closely at static shots you can recognise that the textures aren't bilinear filtered. When you're playing something that is constantly moving, on a screen probably not as clear as a PC screen, at arms length.. well you wouldn't find me complaining at least. I think nintendo have made a sensible decision in reigning in the graphical power a little to hopefully allow for innovation in other areas than graphics.
Plus, as is shown anything* that can be done on the PSP can be done on the PSP at lower graphical quality but you'll be hard pressed to convert anything made specifically for the DS to the PSP.
*I'll concede on something that requires huge amounts of data and streaming off the disc for example. But games that use constant streaming are going to be outlawed I think as it will eat your battery alive.
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#31939 - sgeos - Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:58 am
You are missing undecided.
-Brendan
#31970 - blinky465 - Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:02 am
| Lupin wrote: |
1. I think the CPU has something about 166mhz, the PSP CPU has 333mhz... The GP32 had a 133Mhz CPU and there were some GP32s that had a 166 Mhz CPU
2. the DS has almost the same hardware as the GP32 and the GP32 is a quite old device...
3. (PSPs UMD will be able to store up to 1.8 GB and it has 32 mb RAM so there will be enough room for high resolution textures).
|
1. A 166MHz dedicated games processor is not necessarily weak - it's just not as fast as a 333MHz one!
2. My car is ten years old, but does 40mpg and will happily sit at 85-90mph all day, every day. It's older than my colleagues Audi TT. But for me, it's a better car - it has a bigger boot, four doors, better mileage, cheaper to insure etc.etc. Hardware is not necessarily better for being newer.... if the hardware is good for the job required of it, it's good!
3. How does the PSP compare to the DS on things like power, battery life, screen clarity? Is this a direct comparison between the DS and PSP?
Shouldn't the statement 'weak hardware' read 'weaker hardware, when compared to the PSP'?
| keldon wrote: |
Okay, graphics wise the PSP smacks the DS over the forehead with barb-wire laced knuckle dusters. |
I'm guessing here, but isn't more powerful hardware more power hungry? (it certainly is in the PIC/microprocessor world!) How about another PRO for the DS (according to others on this board) relatively long battery life?
#31983 - Lupin - Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:02 pm
The PSP should run 6 hours without recharging or changing the batteries, i think that is good enough. The screen of the PSP and the screen of the DS have problems like dead pixels.
You can't rate a product without looking at its competitors or without considering the current technical development, if you would you can also say that a 6502 is everything you'd ever need because it can do everything that an x86 4ghz CPU can do (just not as fast)...
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#31996 - Quirky - Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:52 pm
| Lupin wrote: |
| You can't rate a product without looking at its competitors or without considering the current technical development, if you would you can also say that a 6502 is everything you'd ever need because it can do everything that an x86 4ghz CPU can do (just not as fast)... |
But it does it smaller!
6502 code is rather elegant and packs more "stuff" to the byte. :)
Also, comparing the GP32 to the DS is a bit off, the DS has all the funky GBA style graphics hardware too (sprites, layers, etc etc without overhead). I have no idea about the PSP, but I am sure that Nintendo 1st party games alone will make the DS a must have.
#31998 - blinky465 - Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:00 pm
| Lupin wrote: |
| You can't rate a product without looking at its competitors or without considering the current technical development... |
Very true. I thought that the original question was what do people consider to be good/bad about the DS rather than how does it compare to other games machines.
(in the same way, you *could* take a poll on the +ve and -ves of a ZX Spectrum, even though by todays standards, it wouldn't score very highly when compared to its competitors.)
e.g. a few people have mentioned dead pixles on the LCD displays.
If the PSP had 10 dead pixels on average, and the DS only two, would you say "pros- low dead pixel count" or "contra- screen has dead pixels"...
I don't have a DS yet, but am watching this thread with interest. I'm not considering buying an alternative, but would like to know, on the whole, if it's worth getting one after Xmas. I'm not really interested in the alternatives at the moment, just do the PROs outweigh the CONs?
PRO - it fits in your (coat) pocket
PRO - backwards compatibility, allowing you to code your own games
PRO - thriving community for support and advice.
hey- why don't I have one of these things yet???!
#32010 - identitycrisisuk - Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:04 am
My reasons for buying a DS or a PSP now is really gonna be the games. I bought my GBA SP for reasons other than just specific games I want to play but now that I've got a handheld, with limited funds I'm gonna be waiting until there's something that I really want to play. You never know, it might be the PSP wipEout, I'm a big fan of the series and if the PSP one ends up being a return to form (fusion's not bad but it can't touch 2097) then I'd be very happy.
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#32043 - keldon - Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:51 pm
| Quirky wrote: |
| I have no idea about the PSP, but I am sure that Nintendo 1st party games alone will make the DS a must have. |
Good point. And we might be lucky enough to see a sequel, or at least release of Eternal Darkness.
| blinky465 wrote: |
| I'm guessing here, but isn't more powerful hardware more power hungry? (it certainly is in the PIC/microprocessor world!) How about another PRO for the DS (according to others on this board) relatively long battery life? |
Well apparently the PSP only runs for 90 minutes on ridge racer.
#32045 - Lupin - Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:05 pm
well, that's the trade off for good looking gfx, but i am sure when Nintendo releases a console with as much hardware capacities as the PSP they will experience the same problems.
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#32049 - Abscissa - Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:30 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| Well apparently the PSP only runs for 90 minutes on ridge racer. |
Ah ha ha ha ha! Brilliant Sony engineering at work ;) It's sad how far their quality in a lot of things has fallen since the times when their quality actually was top-class. Have you heared about the broken analog-nubs and UMD-discs popping out?
| Lupin wrote: |
| well, that's the trade off for good looking gfx, but i am sure when Nintendo releases a console with as much hardware capacities as the PSP they will experience the same problems. |
Nah, Nintendo always makes it a big point to never release anything that has a low battery life. The non-SP GBA's lack of a screen light and the Wavebird's lack of rumble support are good examples. Once they're able to get something to last 8 hours or so on a couple of AA's (or whatever built-in rechargable might be used) then that's when they release.
#32054 - sgeos - Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:08 pm
| keldon wrote: |
| Well apparently the PSP only runs for 90 minutes on ridge racer. |
Good lord! Keep it away! I was just up from 2:30 AM to 5:30 AM playing GBA because I couldn't sleep. I didn't realize that 3 hours went by, but if the battery ran out half way through, that would just be silly!
-Brendan
#32055 - Lupin - Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:29 pm
heh yeah, i really enjoy the fact that my SP only needs to be recharged seldomly (i mostly listen to music/run my own ROMs because there are no good GBA games that i could buy (any suggestions?), last game i played was Zelda Minish cap) i never actually checked how long i can play without recharging...
Maybe Sony will make some changes until the european release of the PSP (i guess they will definately fix the issues with dead pixels/air bubbles in screen/PSP falling apart). Seriously, 90 minutes of fun, for me, is better than 10 hours of being bored with a boring game that i played on the N64 hundrets of times already
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#32058 - Vince - Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:31 pm
Hi,
Voted for 'own one but do not find it interesting'. Bought one for the HW which seems nice but do not really enjoy the games as the console it _far_ from sexy as the SP is.
So I'm expecting a lot from FSF devrs : VPN clients, Linux, cool apps, etc
Vince
#32060 - Abscissa - Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:22 pm
| Lupin wrote: |
| (i mostly listen to music/run my own ROMs because there are no good GBA games that i could buy (any suggestions?), last game i played was Zelda Minish cap) |
-Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga
-Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Although I've only played a little)
-Wario Land 4
-WarioWare Inc.
There is a lot of boring stuff on GBA/GBC though. Didn't realize Minish Cap was out, I'll have to take a look.
#32061 - identitycrisisuk - Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:30 pm
Minish Cap has only been released in Japan and the UK so far, USA sometime next year. I'll probably wait for the US version though cos I'm cheap and I'll be able to get it from video games plus for a lot less.
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#32144 - keldon - Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:19 pm
Two questions on the touchscreen:
(a) Calibration, is it catered for?
(b) Resistance, is it easy to break or likely to damage?
#32196 - mymateo - Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:01 am
| keldon wrote: |
Two questions on the touchscreen:
(a) Calibration, is it catered for?
(b) Resistance, is it easy to break or likely to damage? |
When I got my DS, the calibration was absolutely perfect. But, I stupidly tried calibrating it and I've gotten it to about 95% perfect (I'm a perfectionist at times), so I guess (a) Yes.
I've played Feel the Magic, a mini-game game (like Wario Ware, but the games are longer) which uses the touch screen for most of the game. At the end of the game, you need to rub the screen madly (to the point where your arm hurts) in order to win, and that's on normal mode. I've made it through normal, hard, AND hell modes. On hell mode, the boss at the end is freaking hard, I had to play him about a dozen times before I won, each time rubbing the screen madly until my arm hurts. The only "wear and tear" on my touch screen is dust, which I could fix by blowing on it... or wiping it with my shirt (which is what I usually do). And I've used my finger (gets grease on the screen) and my fingernail (needed precision, but couldn't bother with getting the stylus out for two seconds then putting it back). And for one of the mini-games you unlock in Mario 64 DS (shell smash) you have to slide a shell to make it hit a bunch of other shells. The faster you move the shell, the better score you can get due to momentum, so I stab the screen at high speeds to get maximum velocity. My roommate cringes when I do this, but the screen is still mint condition.
The screen is old-school Nintendo quality (Remember the NES controller? Those things were invincible!!), so (b) No and no.
#32205 - tepples - Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:48 am
| mymateo wrote: |
| At the end of [Feel the Magic on normal mode], you need to rub the screen madly (to the point where your arm hurts) in order to win |
Did you have to go faster than about 7 Hz, and for how long? I don't want to buy a game only to have to give up on it because I'm not physically able to progress.
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#32206 - mymateo - Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:02 am
Hmm... I'd say that's about close. :)
But it's not until Hell mode that it's that difficult. In Regular mode, it's not all that hard (did it on my 1st try), in Hard mode it's... well, hard... but still manageable. It's only Hell mode that it really started to piss me off. And since the only thing beating the harder modes give you is some extras to unlock (costumes), you can play on regular mode and get the complete story, so it's not bad.
Overall, Feel the Magic is a really fun game! And I love the music for the very final stage... it sets the mood perfectly. I get tingles thinking about it sometimes...
#32270 - FluBBa - Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:36 am
The only thing I can actually complain about on the DS is the d-pad, if you press a little to hard on on it you can't go straight up or down, you allways go up-left/up-right or down-left/down-right. And it's a bit large after you've been using a GBA SP, but compared to any other portable it's not a big difference.
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#32273 - mymateo - Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:03 am
I've never really noticed the pressing hard issue, the D-Pad has always worked well for me. A for the size, I like it. The only thing I'd change on the DS is give it bigger Zabie buttons :) (Chrono Ttrigger is awesome... Zabie = XABY)
'Cause really, the DS doesn't waste space... much. The only really wasted space is right above the speakers. Two options I think Nintendo should have considered more closely:
1) Two more speakers. 16 channels in hardware = 4 channels per speaker = cool surround effects. If the ones on bottom aimed a little down and the ones on top aimed a little up, then the audio could be more immersive.
2) Indicator lights.
| Code: |
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In these spots could be four bars on each side.
On the left in [-1-]: battery power (last bar turns from green to red when down to 15%)
On the right in [-2-]: could be wireless reception.
The lights at the bottom could then be used for power (Red = Charging, green means power on, flashing means in sleep) and wireless (blink-blink-pause would now mean snooping for other DS's, steady blinking means that other DS's have been found, and it blinks every time a packet is sent or received, ie network traffic indicator, and off means that the wireless feature is not in use ).
I dunno... anyone else think I could work for Nintendo as an ideas man?
#32285 - Abscissa - Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:12 pm
| FluBBa wrote: |
| The only thing I can actually complain about on the DS is the d-pad, if you press a little to hard on on it you can't go straight up or down, you allways go up-left/up-right or down-left/down-right. And it's a bit large after you've been using a GBA SP, but compared to any other portable it's not a big difference. |
I've found that to be a problem with almost all D-Pads built after the 16-bit era :( . The only ones that don't seem to do that are the ones by Sony.
#32314 - sgeos - Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:03 am
| mymateo wrote: |
| I dunno... anyone else think I could work for Nintendo as an ideas man? |
Nobody needs idea men. They need hardware and software engineers, artists and the like. One needs to be able to do something else to have input.
-Brendan
#32327 - Dib - Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:50 am
| mymateo wrote: |
| I dunno... anyone else think I could work for Nintendo as an ideas man? |
That depends..would you have ever let them release the product onto the market with a mandatory health warning screen displayed at startup every time without any internal option to disable it?
If you can't gauge the customer's annoyance reaction to blatantly stupid flaws in the product, it's probably not a good idea to work at a company Nintendo. Which makes me wonder how that health warning ever got in there.......
#32330 - mymateo - Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:03 am
| sgeos wrote: |
| Nobody needs idea men. They need hardware and software engineers, artists and the like. One needs to be able to do something else to have input. |
Well, Nintendo *has* engineers and artists etc. But they obviously don't have people that want to buy the hardware and play the games 'cause there are so many things that so many companies do that can so obviously be changed for the better with almost no increase in price. I don't claim to *know* how things work, but if they had someone play the DS and say "I don't like the buttons, they're too small!" don't you think they might have considered making them slightly bigger, especially since they re-designed the entire case to look sleeker? Well, that's just me I guess...
| Dib wrote: |
| That depends..would you have ever let them release the product onto the market with a mandatory health warning screen displayed at startup every time without any internal option to disable it? |
No. Here's what I probably would have done.
First time turning on the system, the user must read an agreement saying he or she has read the health warning and click on the "Ok, I want to play now... not that I actually read the warning" button... I mean, "Agree" button.
Then, on every boot, the exact same screens would show up, but when the DS is finished playing it's little opening chime, it'll just... go.
Also, a little off topic of the health warning, I'd add something to the startup screen. If the DS detects a DS and a GBA game, it would display a message "Hold Y to play GBA game", unless the user has selected to always boot to the main menu. Also, I'd add an option to choose to default to play GBA games on bootup if it's found, then the message would change to "Hold Y to play DS game".
But, that's just me...
#32333 - Dib - Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:11 am
| keldon wrote: |
Two questions on the touchscreen:
(a) Calibration, is it catered for?
(b) Resistance, is it easy to break or likely to damage? |
You want to know about the DS resistance? I'll tell you a story, and I swear it's completely true:
Just now, as in not even five minutes ago, I turned to check where my DS was because I hadn't played it all day. In the month that it's been out this is very unusual as not a day has yet gone by that I haven't spent several hours playing it.
I realized that I couldn't see it sitting in any of the usual spots like my desk or the table near the couch. So I got up and started looking around the rooms, and still couldn't find it anywhere. That's when I tried to remember when I played it last, and it hit me.
Sometimes when I'm working really, really late at night on the computer, I end up crashing on the couch not having the strength to drag myself to bed. And last night that is exactly what happened. Except that, evidently, I was playing my DS before I fell asleep.
So I search all around the couch, and that's when I saw it: wedged inside of the couch, open faced. You have where the seat cusions meet the back of the couch; the bottom touch screen part of the DS was under the seat and the top part was between the side of the cusion and against the back of the couch. And that's how it was all night while I slept on it and all day when I never knew. At this moment I can't even remember playing it last night, yet that's exactly what happened.
So I just got done wiping it off with my eyeglass cleaning cloth since some dirt and loose hair had collected on it, being inside the couch, and it's still brand new. No scratches, not single a trace. It was even still on since the game I was playing had automatically entered sleep mode. I pressed the start+select combination to wake it up, and there's my game from last night and the battery light is still green.
I hate to admit but I freaked out when I saw it under there, since I'm the type of person who hates for devices like my DS to show any sign of wear. I don't plan to, but if I ever repeat this I want to be beaten severely so it never happens a third time.