#41179 - Mechz - Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:23 am
Split from Which Emulator For The DS Do You Want To See Most?
I know this is a DS forum and whatnot, but damn, if we could get past the encryption, emulating on the PSP would be assloads cheaper (and more effective) than on the DS.
#41180 - The 9th Sage - Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:25 am
| Mechz wrote: |
| I know this is a DS forum and whatnot, but damn, if we could get past the encryption, emulating on the PSP would be assloads cheaper (and more effective) than on the DS. |
How so? Doesn't the PSP cost at least a hundred dollars more than the DS?
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#42104 - Abscissa - Fri May 06, 2005 12:40 am
| Mechz wrote: |
| I know this is a DS forum and whatnot, but damn, if we could get past the encryption, emulating on the PSP would be assloads cheaper (and more effective) than on the DS. |
Cheaper? How? (Not trying to flame, just unclear)
#42105 - Fox5 - Fri May 06, 2005 12:43 am
| Abscissa wrote: |
| Mechz wrote: | | I know this is a DS forum and whatnot, but damn, if we could get past the encryption, emulating on the PSP would be assloads cheaper (and more effective) than on the DS. |
Cheaper? How? (Not trying to flame, just unclear) |
Well, you don't have to buy a flash cart, flash carts are very expensive for their amount of storage.
#42107 - tepples - Fri May 06, 2005 12:56 am
| Fox5 wrote: |
| Well, you don't have to buy a flash cart, flash carts are very expensive for their amount of storage. |
And what is a Memory Stick?
Nintendo DS + 256 Mbit EFA + PassMe = 250 USD.
Sony PSP, which includes 256 Mbit Memory Stick = 250 USD.
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#42109 - Fox5 - Fri May 06, 2005 1:38 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Fox5 wrote: | | Well, you don't have to buy a flash cart, flash carts are very expensive for their amount of storage. |
And what is a Memory Stick?
Nintendo DS + 256 Mbit EFA + PassMe = 250 USD.
Sony PSP, which includes 256 Mbit Memory Stick = 250 USD. |
Same cost, but PSP is a more powerful system, plus it would probably be cheaper to get larger sized memory sticks than larger sized flash carts.
#42113 - bcforn64 - Fri May 06, 2005 3:58 am
that and everyone who buys a PSP out of the box would be able to write to flash memory through usb. So dev's could be writing code for the whole psp community rather than a small commnity with flash cards. Also, the psp is firware flashable out of the box.
#42114 - tepples - Fri May 06, 2005 5:16 am
| Fox5 wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | Nintendo DS + 256 Mbit EFA + PassMe = 250 USD.
Sony PSP, which includes 256 Mbit Memory Stick = 250 USD. |
Same cost, but PSP is a more powerful system |
Power is relative. The PSP can't even emulate the NES (yet). And sometimes, if you are going to be away from 120VAC or 230VAC for extended periods of time, you want a less powerful system so that its battery will last longer.
| Quote: |
| plus it would probably be cheaper to get larger sized memory sticks than larger sized flash carts. |
Not if the DS firmware hacking elite manage to crack the SuperCard. Then CF-I becomes cheaper than Memory Stick.
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#42115 - dankydoo - Fri May 06, 2005 5:44 am
tepples,
both systems have their strong and weak points.
but I've seen you hate on the psp a few times for really no good reason.
"...Hate the psp because the battery doesn't last as long as the ds" is a weak argument in comparing systems. "..it can't emulate an NES..."
please, someone as bright as you should not be a FAn boy, you should be OBJECTIVELY applying your knowledge to both.
I know that your personal preference is gba/ds, but to bash another system is really beneath the quality and the reputation of you and this board
dankydoo
#42117 - TJ - Fri May 06, 2005 6:22 am
| Quote: |
| "...Hate the psp because the battery doesn't last as long as the ds" is a weak argument in comparing systems. |
It is about as "weak" as comparing two cars by their fuel economy.
The point of a portable console is to be able to use it out of the home for extended periods of time, not to keep it plugged into the wall.
To do that, you need a system that lasts a long time on it's internal power alone. The PSP (as have nearly all of the rival handhelds in the past) simply doesn't measure up with Nintendo's device in this regard. It is a fact that cannot be argued.
I have personally ran a PSP from full charge to near dead in 1 1/2 hours while using it's WiFi functions. That isn't even remotely long enough to make it viable for extended trips out of the house for me, and I am certainly not the only one who thinks so.
#42120 - dankydoo - Fri May 06, 2005 7:55 am
| TJ wrote: |
I have personally ran a PSP from full charge to near dead in 1 1/2 hours while using it's WiFi functions. That isn't even remotely long enough to make it viable for extended trips out of the house for me, and I am certainly not the only one who thinks so. |
And I have personally ran a psp from full charge to dead in almost 8 hours playing limines just this week....
I do not see how that is considered short battery time.....especially if you are using the wifi....plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling.....
but, I digress,
I do love the DS, I am just starting to get into development for it, but my point was not to start a kiddie console flame war, but to say that we need to be objective and not claim either is better,
one thing that is prevelant with pro "x"-console people is to compare a certain game to some similar homebrew rip-off or PC flash game (i.e. lumines) but that in itself defeats the purpose of the protable console and why settle for something less than the real thing, it is just as easy to say the same for another console..., is it not?
anyways, back to openGL on the DS,
dankydoo
#42121 - TJ - Fri May 06, 2005 8:12 am
| Quote: |
| And I have personally ran a psp from full charge to dead in almost 8 hours playing limines just this week.... |
Then you must play with no sound and the backlight as low as possible, or you have a very bad concept of time.
Even Sony doesn't rate the PSP for 8 hours under realistic situations, and I have never heard of anyone getting more than 6 hours with acceptable brightness and volume on the system. Even PSP biased sites will admit that 3 to 6 hours is the normal operating time.
| Quote: |
| plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling |
No, actually, it is horrendously stupid.
Why would I buy a $250 system to poorly emulate a $150 system?
#42133 - tepples - Fri May 06, 2005 2:42 pm
| dankydoo wrote: |
but I've seen you hate on the psp a few times for really no good reason.
"...Hate the psp because the battery doesn't last as long as the ds" is a weak argument in comparing systems. "..it can't emulate an NES..."
please, someone as bright as you should not be a FAn boy, you should be OBJECTIVELY applying your knowledge to both. |
I'm bitter because 1. it's so darn expensive for its capabilities and I can't find a decent job locally that pays more than $0.00 an hour, and 2. this is a Nintendo board.
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#42136 - byg - Fri May 06, 2005 4:03 pm
| dankydoo wrote: |
And I have personally ran a psp from full charge to dead in almost 8 hours playing limines just this week....
|
Sorry - I'm new here, but wouldn't the battery life depend on how often things like Wi-Fi (as TJ mentioned) and UMD access was used? Lumines is a pretty simple game. I'd be suprised if it wasn't loaded almost entirely into memory.
And 8 hours constant?? You must be pretty good.
#42145 - tepples - Fri May 06, 2005 7:04 pm
| byg wrote: |
| Lumines is a pretty simple game. I'd be suprised if it wasn't loaded almost entirely into memory. |
Doesn't Lumines need to stream music off the UMD?
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#42146 - dankydoo - Fri May 06, 2005 7:08 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| byg wrote: | | Lumines is a pretty simple game. I'd be suprised if it wasn't loaded almost entirely into memory. |
Doesn't Lumines need to stream music off the UMD? |
No, you can even remove the disc if you want. It may load between levels, but maybe even every few. On the minute interval challenges, I've removed the disc and continued as long as I wished, retrying the level.
#42147 - dankydoo - Fri May 06, 2005 7:10 pm
| byg wrote: |
And 8 hours constant?? You must be pretty good. |
Not too bad, Im at around 500,000, took almost 1.5 hours to do. I play the minute challenges the most, Im trying to get 100 in 60 seconds, but I'm not sure this is possible. I think I'll quit playing if I ever reach 999,999, which people have done, which also scares me quite a bit.
Sorry to get off topic of the thread....
dankydoo
#42202 - dankydoo - Sat May 07, 2005 6:42 pm
| TJ wrote: |
| Quote: | | And I have personally ran a psp from full charge to dead in almost 8 hours playing limines just this week.... |
Then you must play with no sound and the backlight as low as possible, or you have a very bad concept of time.
Even Sony doesn't rate the PSP for 8 hours under realistic situations, and I have never heard of anyone getting more than 6 hours with acceptable brightness and volume on the system. Even PSP biased sites will admit that 3 to 6 hours is the normal operating time.
| Quote: | | plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling |
No, actually, it is horrendously stupid.
Why would I buy a $250 system to poorly emulate a $150 system? |
3-6 hours is ridiculous. 6 at the lowest....have you played one first hand or are you going by hear-say (which I imagine)? That wasn't my point anyways, it was to say that both systems are amazing in their own right and it is terribly closed minded to try to tear one down over the other. I don't understand the justification against either. This is a nintendo board, and I am actually a nintendo fanboy, and I love their products, just dissapointed with the overall anti-psp stance around here, it's very immature and childish.
#42203 - tepples - Sat May 07, 2005 7:10 pm
| dankydoo wrote: |
| 3-6 hours is ridiculous. 6 at the lowest....have you played one first hand or are you going by hear-say (which I imagine)? |
Until PSP demo units begin to arrive in stores this summer, hearsay is all that job seekers such as myself have to go on. Anybody who has played a PSP is likely either a rich early adopter or a friend of a rich early adopter.
| Quote: |
| I don't understand the justification against either. This is a nintendo board, and I am actually a nintendo fanboy, and I love their products, just dissapointed with the overall anti-psp stance around here, it's very immature and childish. |
If the PSP were cracked to the extent that the Nintendo DS was even a month ago (I am not paying big bucks to import a Japanese unit with 1.0 firmware), or if it were more affordable to try the system's commercial games before buying it (I am not paying $290 to play a game that I may or may not like), then forum regulars might warm up to it more.
That does it. I'm splitting the DS vs. PSP chat to a separate topic.
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#42978 - linus - Tue May 17, 2005 7:20 pm
I posted this http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=5748 in the DS dev board, it probably would have been more suited here, sorry
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#43031 - Intrepion - Wed May 18, 2005 11:53 am
| dankydoo wrote: |
....plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling..... |
Yeah! That is pretty intriguing! I'd imagine you could use one of the PSP's extra buttons to toggle between the dual screens. Mmm, so tasty.
#43039 - DiscoStew - Wed May 18, 2005 4:08 pm
DS emulation on the PSP? Even if you could emulate a lot of the features, how would you go about emulating the touch-screen (with ease to the user)? I'm liking the line-up of DS games coming soon, so I think I'll stick with my DS and do programming on that when the time comes.
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#43046 - Abscissa - Wed May 18, 2005 5:42 pm
| dankydoo wrote: |
| ...that we need to be objective and not claim either is better, |
Being objective means coming to your conclusions through valid reasoning instead of bias. Being objective does NOT imply avoiding any claims that one is better. Not making any claims about which, if either, is better is being indecisive, not objective. In other words, as long as you have valid and reasonable evidence, you can claim one is better and still be objective.
| dankydoo wrote: |
| ...plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling..... |
Standard rule of thumb for emulation is that the host platform must be about 10x faster than the emulated system for full-speed emulation to be possible. The PSP is faster than the DS, but certainly not 10x, so the only hope it would have of fully emulating the DS would be if it's CPU was a faster ARM9 - which also is not the case. So "the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS" is not compelling, it is misinformed.
Last edited by Abscissa on Wed May 18, 2005 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
#43063 - tepples - Wed May 18, 2005 7:38 pm
| Abscissa wrote: |
| dankydoo wrote: | | ...plus, isn't the thought that the psp could possibly emulate the DS compelling..... |
Standard rule of thumb for emulation is that the host platform must be about 10x faster than the emulated system for full-speed emulation to be possible. |
Assuming interpretive emulation and similar graphics architectures. With just-in-time recompilation, high-level emulation (i.e. static recompilation of standard library code), and graphics hacks, this requirement of a 10:1 ratio can be overcome to an extent.
| Quote: |
| The PSP is faster than the DS, but certainly not 10x |
Given that Nintendo is the exclusive author of the ARM7 code for official games, the ARM7 can likely be HLE'd. This leaves a 5:1 ratio for the PSP's MIPS to the Nintendo DS's ARM9, which might be good enough to run games that don't use 100% of the ARM9 CPU time or which use libraries that can be HLE'd.
Emulate the touch screen the same way that ports of light gun games do: with the PSP's analog stick.
But still, I'd suggest emulating the GBA on the PSP before emulating anything else.
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#53281 - GBAJAY - Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:15 am
I have a PSP and its a bitch to put hombrew on it... Heres why and yes I own a PSP, sony is updating the BIO in the PSP with newer ones, either dowloading content from the net via Wi-FI, newer games that upgrades the bios, or when linking with another player via wi-fi, the PSP with the new BIOS will upgrade the PSP with the old bios...
If the PSP gets downgraded it will break certain boot files wich could make the PSP work impropertly..
If you flash the BIOS, chances are high of having a DEAD psp, meaning turn it on and boom black screen...
why does sony do this?
to prevent people from making homebrew stuff on their hardware and playing PSP ISO's
Last edited by GBAJAY on Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
#53306 - Touchstone - Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43 am
| TJ wrote: |
No, actually, it is horrendously stupid.
Why would I buy a $250 system to poorly emulate a $150 system? |
Isn't that kinda the whole idea of emulating? :-) You are emulating a NES system, which you can get for less than $10, on a computer that'll cost you $700. Altough the emulation is probably pretty good, but without the piercing noise and the incredibly uncomfortable NES kontroller it's still not a perfect emulation. :)
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