#90956 - nukomod - Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:23 pm
Hi,
I've been working on DS homebrew for the last couple of months now, but only just stumbled across this forum. This seems to be the most active forum by far for DS/GBA development so I think I'll make myself at home ;)
I'm working on a version of the original Command & Conquer on the DS, taking advantage of the stylus. I'm planning to have the game run in both classic mode, which is as close to the original as I can make it, and Enhanced mode, which has all the features I always wanted but was never made it. For example the original C&C had all the artwork in place for hand to hand combat but it was never implemented! That's on my list of things to do :)
To be honest I'm not too sure of the legal side of this, but I'm not doing this for commercial gain and it's a personal project so I think it'll be ok. If I'm not allowed to release it that would be a shame, but I'm writing the game more as a generic engine so I'd still release the source for others. If anyone knows more about this let me know!
It's a humble beginning so far, just got some basics working really. I'm keeping a sort of blog of the action here:
http://cncds_project.livejournal.com/
Nothing too exciting yet but we'll see how it goes ;) Feel free to comment on the blog about any of the issues I'm coming up against, though no doubt I'll be posting plenty of questions on here. I'm currently starting to look at file systems, so if anyone has any suggestions on the best/easiest/fastest way to do this I'm all ears.. ;)
#90970 - tepples - Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:39 pm
As long as you don't distribute any assets copied from the C&C games, it should be OK. I don't know about the United Kingdom, but game rules as such are not subject to copyright in at least the United States.
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#90981 - timminater - Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:40 pm
you are my hero !!
if i can help you with anything, please PM me !
#90984 - ?hr - Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:52 pm
mighty max is also working on a similiar thing. maybe you two could work together?
#90987 - Lucid_Dream - Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:01 pm
Great, looking forward to it :)
Oh and please get it to work with g6 flash as thats the flashcart I own :D
#90998 - Mr. Picklesworth - Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:47 pm
Thank you for not making this another "please make this" request.
Sounds excellent, indeed :)
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#91009 - wdawn - Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:45 pm
this would be really GREAT, i really want a good RTS game for the DS.
Stupid developers with their stupid turn based shit :P
#91011 - nukomod - Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:11 pm
I signed up the C&C DS petition ( http://www.petitiononline.com/EADS/petition.html ) but realised nothing would ever happen, so decided to take the steps myself :)
I've seen some of Mighty Max's stuff, looks promising, I may get in touch we'll see.
Thanks for the heads up about distributing game content - yeah I can see how that works. People do their own versions of Doom and the Hexen engine, but you must use the original wad files etc. Hmmm problem is I wasn't planning on using those horrendous MIX files that C&C uses but my own format.. that could be an issue. I couldn't distribute my versions of the files so people would never have them. They could create them themselves if I included the tools and instructions on how to convert the C&C content, but that would be a hell of a job by itself for both them and me! Any ideas?
#91012 - Dark Knight ez - Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:36 pm
No ideas.
| Quote: |
| this would be really GREAT, i really want a good RTS game for the DS. |
I'm working on one as well...
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10135
Would have the same legal issues as this remake, and it uses the same solution... giving a modifiable engine, and letting the user provide their own content. A release of an entire game using that engine will probably be given as well, using all original content (read: own graphics). I suggest you do the same for this remake.
As to how to make it easy for users to create their own graphics packs and such, I don't know. I think it can't be easy by default. I'll just be refering to the programs, how they should be used and what-not, I think.
Anyway, good luck on this project. :)
#91013 - nukomod - Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:41 pm
Thanks man :) Looks like a pretty cool project you've got too, dune was awesome, have you got a website?
Seems like you trying the same approach of making an RTS engine that can be easily customised to the game of your choice (e.g. Dune).. but this copyrighted content thing is a real pain! Well I'll soldier on with it and if some solution comes up great, otherwise it'd have to remain a private project ;(
#91014 - Dark Knight ez - Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:48 pm
No, I haven't got a website for it.
I don't have something to show yet. :)
I'll definitely be following your project though.
I can't recall, but did C&C use graphics which could be tiled?
As in: were the maps and graphics clearly made out of say 8x8, or 16x16 tiles? If so, are you planning on using Mode0 and sprites like I am trying to, or do you want to keep framebuffer mode?
#91016 - nukomod - Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:55 pm
Yeah it had tiled backgrounds. As a side note some of the tiles were designed to be used in set patterns. I can't remember the name they used for these, but many of the tiles should only be used next to certain others, to make the cliffs and beaches etc. The level editors I saw took advantage of this, letting you put down big chunks of terrain in one go instead of each fiddly tile.
Anyway my current plan is to just use frame buffer mode, but I get the feeling I'll be missing out on some of the DS features if I do. I figure I'll continue with the framebuffer for now and maybe change it later as I learn more.
#91018 - tepples - Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:01 am
| nukomod wrote: |
| Anyway my current plan is to just use frame buffer mode |
By "frame buffer" you mean "extended rotation" right?
| Quote: |
| but I get the feeling I'll be missing out on some of the DS features if I do. I figure I'll continue with the framebuffer for now and maybe change it later as I learn more. |
In parallel with this project, I strongly suggest that you learn how to do tile mode on the GBA. Even if it's just Breakout or Tetris, knowing how a tile based display mode works will make it easier for you to learn to do 16x16s the "right" way on the DS.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#91053 - nukomod - Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:38 am
| tepples wrote: |
By "frame buffer" you mean "extended rotation" right? |
Right now it's just the frame buffer. I've only read a little into the capabilities of the different video modes on offer. This is definately something I need to learn more about.
| tepples wrote: |
In parallel with this project, I strongly suggest that you learn how to do tile mode on the GBA. Even if it's just Breakout or Tetris, knowing how a tile based display mode works will make it easier for you to learn to do 16x16s the "right" way on the DS. |
What do you mean by tile mode? Is that a hardware feature? Where can I read more?
#91057 - Dark Knight ez - Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:48 am
Mode 0, which I spoke of, is a tile mode for instance. Using tiled backgrounds.
The basic principle behind it is this:
- Load in the palette.
- Load in the graphics, which should be tiles. (All 8x8 tiles. Of course, 16x16 tiles are just 4 8x8 tiles.)
- For each background (Mode 0 has four available) you have a "map". That map exists out of references to your tiled graphics. For Each tile that exists in the background, there's a reference to a tile in your graphics. That way you build up the screen.
There are numerous advantages to this. First of all is that you don't have to specify each and every pixel yourself. Second is that you can specify if a tile to be displayed on screen needs to be flipped horizontally and/or vertically. Third of all is that you have more than one BG to divide up displaying things more (which is always a good thing). Fourth is that a tiled background can be shifted. When a player scrolls the game-map one to the left, you can just shift the background and add only new references to the newly seen tiles, instead of having to update the entire background.
There are probably more... but... ;)
TONC regarding this, very useful:
http://user.chem.tue.nl/jakvijn/tonc/regbg.htm
Let me know if you decide to use it.
#91078 - nukomod - Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:06 pm
Excellent - thanks DK! I'll give it a read over. Sounds like it's ideal, I'll see what the other advantages are and make a decision.
- I just skimmed over it and noticed it seems pretty GBA specific - does the DS use the same memory locations etc?
#91090 - Dark Knight ez - Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:08 pm
Almost the same locations, yes. I've got it working right now.
The main difference is that the background graphics go in a VRAM bank set to be used for BG. If you use VRAM bank A for it, you'll also have more room for the graphics than on a GBA (128kB instead of the 64kB mentioned at TONC).
Give me your email address in a PM and I'll email you the code I've got right now (which is basicly just getting mode0 to work).
#91094 - nukomod - Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:41 pm
Ah 128kb sounds a little nicer than 64kb, sweet. That's pretty generous DK, I'll be sure to help you out wherever I can :) My email is public, the email button under my post should work fine. I won't be able to look at it though until much later tonight because I'm at work, but I look forward to it ;)
#91099 - Dark Knight ez - Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:22 pm
Should've noticed. :)
Could I add you to MSN?
#91175 - Mallin - Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:31 am
I had posted this in the similar thread about RTSs
| Mallin wrote: |
How about Hard Vacuum it has some really cool sounding features. I would love to play it.
That is a webpage for a former developer for that game that was never released, maybe we could interest him in helping out and providing source files.
Its a shot in the dark, but I e-mailed him seeing if it was possible. |
I got an e-mail back from Danc and you have his blessing to use the art that they developed for hard vacuum, if you can use it.
#91214 - Roc - Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:27 am
Don't know if this will be of any help, but there's an open source reimplementation of the Command & Conquer engine called freecnc. It's not being developed any more, but it still might be useful :)
#91232 - nukomod - Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:37 pm
I had a look at hard vacuum and I have to admit I'm pretty impressed with the artwork - it's got a proper retro bitmap brothers look to it ;) It would be tempting to write the game engine flexible enough to support both C&C and something like Hard Vacuum (where the artwork is pretty much public domain) at the same time. That way I could create C&C as a personal project, but be able to release the game with Hard Vacuum assets.
I'd looked at freeCNC before a while ago, but had almost forgotten about it. One useful thing that perhaps I could use is the file loading/reading. If they are able to read all the original C&C files then the prospect of a conversion tool would be a lot more realistic. People could run the tool on their C&C directory, creating all the assets needed to run my game. I think that would get around the legal issue (?)
Oh, and Mr.Picklesworth - do you also visit the Blitz 3D/Basic forums? I thought the name seemed familiar ;)
#91249 - tepples - Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:40 pm
| nukomod wrote: |
| One useful thing [from freeCNC] that perhaps I could use is the file loading/reading. If they are able to read all the original C&C files then the prospect of a conversion tool would be a lot more realistic. People could run the tool on their C&C directory, creating all the assets needed to run my game. I think that would get around the legal issue (?) |
I believe that would be acceptable for gbadev.org; otherwise, the forum moderators would have locked the ScummVM topic long ago.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#91595 - Mallin - Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:33 am
Anymore on this?
I'm not a coder, but I might be able to help out with some graphics modification for this.
#91633 - nukomod - Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:00 pm
Yup, at the moment I'm just working away on the engine. I'm currently reading up on the background layers on the DS and the memory layout. In the game engine I've got my debug menu working which is usually my #1 debugging tool. Next I'm going to code in support for the DS background layers with tiles.
I will be needing some graphics done soon for this, but I've not decided on a file format etc. Basically I think I can use all the original 255 colour C&C tiles, but I may have to reduce the number of rotations for each unit from 32 to 16. Oh and regarding graphics I think both C&C art AND original artwork would be useful (including Hard Vacuum artwork). If legally speaking I can never release the C&C port I could at least release it with other artwork.
Oh and if you're interested don't forget to check the journal I'm keeping to log the progress of the game:
http://cncds-project.livejournal.com/
#91883 - nukomod - Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:52 am
I've got a couple of concept art pictures to show. An explanation of them can be found on my blog thing - http://cncds_project.livejournal.com/
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
Don't get too excited by this one - it's a dirty photoshop ;)
[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
#91924 - wdawn - Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:38 pm
this looks really good :D, i hope this project will get trough.
A Real RTS :D finally
#91942 - jester - Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:38 pm
i wouldnt mind helping!
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#91945 - dualscreenman - Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:46 pm
| wdawn wrote: |
this looks really good :D, i hope this project will get trough.
A Real RTS :D finally |
What? A Touch of War not good enough for you? :p
_________________
| dualscreenman wrote: |
| What about Gaim DS? Gaim pretty much has support for all IM programs. |
| tepples wrote: |
| "Goshdammit, the DS is not a Gaim-boy! It's a third pillar!" |
#91950 - jester - Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:51 pm
well yes but it is not always being developed!
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![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/cncds_project/concept.png){kind=link}
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/cncds_project/concept3.jpg){kind=link}