#100172 - Kung Fu - Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:27 pm
Is it possible? Is anyone willing? More importantly....is it POSSIBLE?
#100173 - MaHe - Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:28 pm
No.
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#100176 - Kung Fu - Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:28 pm
Oh. Well then....thanks.
#100235 - msa - Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:12 pm
i'm curious: why is it not possible?^^
#100239 - tepples - Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:22 pm
DS CPU: 67 MHz
N64 CPU: 93 MHz
Any questions?
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#100240 - Xtreme - Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:34 pm
Actually to be specific - DS has two CPUs
ARM9 (ARM946E-S) 67 MHz
and
ARM7 (ARM7TDMI) 33 MHz
EDIT: I forgot to say that there needs to be even more cpu power to emulate N64, so the answer is No.
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#100246 - TheChuckster - Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:53 pm
CPU emulation is not exactly suited for parallel processing any how.
#100267 - dantheman - Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:10 am
To be even more specific, as was brought up on another board (yarr), an N64 emulator would theoretically be possible, but at a speed close to 1 frame per minute. Not worth anyone's time to create.
#100312 - Extreme Coder - Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:27 am
Perhaps if you do the DS overclocking trick, you may get it to 1 frame per second instead;)
#100317 - HyperHacker - Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:01 am
Well with the overclocking mods I've seen you could reach 1.7FPM.
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#100340 - OOPMan - Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:47 pm
Gah, damn Mario 64 DS. It's the source of all these silly questions...
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#100346 - Darkflame - Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:38 pm
To be fair there is something else slightly in the DS's favor:
Lower resolution.
2 frames a second then ;)
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#100351 - Optihut - Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:42 pm
| OOPMan wrote: |
| Gah, damn Mario 64 DS. It's the source of all these silly questions... |
Or maybe the - imho, ymmv - best part of the Zelda series is.
#100357 - tepples - Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:01 pm
| OOPMan wrote: |
| Gah, damn Mario 64 DS. It's the source of all these silly questions... |
Explain it this way: A lot of games appeared on Sega Genesis and Super NES. Is one emulating the other?
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#100370 - zzo38computer - Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:18 pm
Speed isn't the only problem, also there might not be enough space to store the ROM, and the NDS doesn't have enough buttons. You could control the joystick by the touch-screen, but the N64 has 4 C-buttons and also a Z button, more buttons than the NDS has. You can't put them all on the touch-screen because then you can't touch them simultaneously.
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#100374 - MaHe - Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:28 pm
Except you put the combo-buttons on the touch screen =D
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#100380 - Flood_of_SYNs - Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:18 pm
ARM CPUs (Wikipedia specs)
ARM946E-S @ 67 MHz
ARM7TDMI @ 33 MHz
Memory: 4 MB
3D HW: 120,000 triangles per second at 30FPS
MIPS CPU (Wikipedia specs)
NEC VR4300 @ 93.75 MHz
Memory: 4MB (upgradeable to 8MB)
3D HW: 100,000 polygons per second at ~60FPS
Specs for the NDS's 3D hardware seems to be sparse.
It looks as though the N64 has better 3D hardware, from the information I could gather about both systems.
But if a game were to be written for the NDS's unique hardware, it should be able to look like N64 quality.
http://beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12703
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon_%28computer_graphics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture
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#100383 - tepples - Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:23 pm
N64 3D graphics are frame buffer. DS 3D graphics are sprite based, where each poly is treated as a sprite.
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#100384 - Flood_of_SYNs - Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:24 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| N64 3D graphics are frame buffer. DS 3D graphics are sprite based, where each poly is treated as a sprite. |
Thanks for clarifing, I was a bit confused.
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#100398 - Darkflame - Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:11 pm
Yes, lets quit this talk about impossibilitys ;)
So..whos up for a PS1 emu eh?
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#100400 - tepples - Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:12 pm
PS1 also uses frame buffer video, and its CPU is still roughly 33 MHz.
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#100408 - Iteo - Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:10 pm
I read about FFIII shutting down one screen at times and uswing two processors combined for one screen. Couldnt that be used to do a n64 emulation?
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#100412 - tepples - Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:43 pm
| Iteo wrote: |
| I read about FFIII shutting down one screen at times and uswing two processors combined for one screen. Couldnt that be used to do a n64 emulation? |
| TheChuckster wrote: |
| CPU emulation is not exactly suited for parallel processing any how. |
Besides, you'd need to emulate the GPU and the DSP too.
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#100419 - Kudaku - Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:29 pm
just use Project64 and use DS2KEY and play, it's the closest you can get
there are enough buttons for games like zelda, remember the N64 had no select and i only got rid of one c button
anyway that's the closest you can get to playing N64 on DS (or use Win2DS) and have the video/screencapture right on your DS
#100426 - HyperHacker - Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:54 pm
Right, suppose we shut down the unused screen, don't emulate sound, use both CPUs, don't support the expansion pak, etc. That means we're using a machine with:
-12 buttons and a touch screen
-36MB RAM, assuming you have something like M3 in the GBA slot
-99mhz of processing power split 66/33 across two CPUs
To emulate a machine with:
-14 buttons and an analog stick
-4MB RAM
-93mhz(?) of processing power
Problem 1: Not enough buttons.
Possible solution: Use the touch screen as the analog stick and two buttons, or the D-pad and two buttons (and use the real D-pad as the analog stick). Since the touch screen can't read multiple touches though, you'd have to press one at a time.
Problem 2: Not enough memory (except for ROMs 16MB and under). 36MB of RAM isn't enough to hold a 32MB ROM, 4MB of emulated memory, and the memory used by the emulator.
Possible solutions: Don't support 32MB ROMs (which kills a lot of compatibility), or require both a GBA-slot RAM expansion and a slot-1 device (since N64 games load from the cartridge like DS games do, slot 1 could contain the ROM and emulate the cartridge) which is expensive. Obviously most homebrew won't have this problem but let's face it, there's no real homebrew worth playing on N64.
Problem 3: Not enough CPU power. We're talking about using two ARM CPUs totalling 99mhz to emulate an R4300 at 93mhz. If the N64 were ARM or the DS were R4300 (God no), it almost might be feasible to emulate at maybe 50mhz.
Possible solutions: Er... connect a much more powerful CPU to the GBA slot?
Find a feasible solution to problem 3 and then we can discuss why things like the graphics hardware and coprocessors are also far too much for the DS to handle.
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#100435 - tepples - Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:43 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
Problem 3: Not enough CPU power. We're talking about using two ARM CPUs totalling 99mhz to emulate an R4300 at 93mhz. If the N64 were ARM or the DS were R4300 (God no), it almost might be feasible to emulate at maybe 50mhz.
Possible solutions: Er... connect a much more powerful CPU to the GBA slot? |
The easiest way to do that is to put a TV tuner card in the GBA slot and connect your N64 console.
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#100449 - Darkflame - Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:27 am
| tepples wrote: |
| PS1 also uses frame buffer video, and its CPU is still roughly 33 MHz. |
It was a joke ;)
However, I am very serious when I say Dos/X86 would be a nice thing to emulate. Unlike N64s/PS1s, Dos has games covering the whole spectrum of mhz requirements...going down nice and low for some.
Also, ram is hardly either an issue.
| Quote: |
| The easiest way to do that is to put a TV tuner card in the GBA slot and connect your N64 console. |
How about running an N64 emulator on your PC and using a streaming app to get it onto the DS screen?
Then somehow map the buttons? :D
Probably about the same framerate as emulateing, if not better :D
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#100450 - tepples - Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:30 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| However, I am very serious when I say Dos/X86 would be a nice thing to emulate. Unlike N64s/PS1s, Dos has games covering the whole spectrum of mhz requirements...going down nice and low for some. |
Yet another PC emulator topic? Please post in one of the topics listed here.
| Quote: |
| How about running an N64 emulator on your PC and using a streaming app to get it onto the DS screen? |
You mean like win2ds?
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#100452 - Darkflame - Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:34 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Darkflame wrote: | | However, I am very serious when I say Dos/X86 would be a nice thing to emulate. Unlike N64s/PS1s, Dos has games covering the whole spectrum of mhz requirements...going down nice and low for some. |
Yet another PC emulator topic? Please post in one of the topics listed here. |
actualy, i talked about it here:
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10808&start=30
| Quote: |
| How about running an N64 emulator on your PC and using a streaming app to get it onto the DS screen? |
You mean like win2ds?[/quote]
Yes, thats one of them, theres another two floating about now, includeing one that actualy uses some standard remote desktop protocal.
Havnt updated in awhile, but generaly you get a frame every 2-5 seconds.
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#100467 - shaz - Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:58 am
listen, it aint possible, but is a PSX emulator possible?
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#100468 - brennan - Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:01 am
| shaz wrote: |
| listen, it aint possible, but is a PSX emulator possible? |
I hope you're being sarcastic.
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#100473 - lambi1982 - Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:19 am
I have a feeling there will be a HW pak for slot2 for playing N64/snes etc. games sent from Wii
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#100478 - tepples - Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:35 am
Most Super NES games would fit into RAM, just as NES games from Animal Crossing did in the GCN/GBA era.
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#100504 - HyperHacker - Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:24 am
And for those that don't it's another excuse to push the Opera browser with its memory expansion.
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#100533 - Extreme Coder - Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:05 pm
PS1 has a much better possibility in being emulated than the N64. Atleast the DS CPU has twice the speed as the PS1.
P.S.: Note that I only said EMULATED, not EMULATED AT FULL SPEED WITH WIFI AND SOUND. Just clarifying a few points:)
#100553 - M3d10n - Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:13 pm
| Extreme Coder wrote: |
PS1 has a much better possibility in being emulated than the N64. Atleast the DS CPU has twice the speed as the PS1.
P.S.: Note that I only said EMULATED, not EMULATED AT FULL SPEED WITH WIFI AND SOUND. Just clarifying a few points:) |
It's hard to get people motivated to venture into writing a complex emulator when they know there's no chance it'll ever run at full speed. Twice the speed isn't enough to emulate a different architecture processor, I'm afraid.
And even if the CPU were fast enough, the DS 3D hardware is so different and specialized that many PSOne games simply cannot be directly ported, let alone be emulated via HLE, requiring the emulator to render the graphics via software renderer, making it even slower.