#104624 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:23 pm
Hmm... a sudden and unexpected blog post by Dragonminded...
http://dragonminded.blogspot.com/
It's weird that so many people notice these things. I don't think he's being dillusional, but I won't hide that I don't know what he or various others panic about. For once I think I'm happy to be completely ignorant :b
I would like to add, though, that if a flash cart manufacturer doesn't make FAT access easy then people should just not bother to support them unless they really have to.
...Same way that it's not my problem if a user of my software uses a peanut butter sandwich as a hard drive.
I'm hoping he lets other people pick up the project where he left off, because DSO really is a great piece of software.
Good luck with future endeavours, DragonMinded.
(And, has anyone got this compiling in Windows after converting all the MakeFiles to Windows format? I'm going to try in Linux in a while, but it's so nice and easy to keep DevkitPro up to date in Windows).
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Last edited by Mr. Picklesworth on Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
#104630 - tepples - Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:06 pm
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
| I would like to add, though, that if a flash cart manufacturer doesn't make FAT access easy then people should just not bother to support them unless they really have to. |
Some posters in the previous boycott topic agree with you, and so do I. So which manufacturers should we patronize? Which have been most helpful about helping Chishm maintain libfat?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104640 - TJ - Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:16 am
As far as I am aware, the SuperCard line is the most compatible aside from the GBAMP. But I don't know if that is due to involvement from them, or just good reverse engineering.
#104654 - chishm - Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:36 am
| tepples wrote: |
| So which manufacturers should we patronize? Which have been most helpful about helping Chishm maintain libfat? |
Here's the list (as accurate as my memory allows):
- Supercard SD & CF: Released SD and CF drivers early on, haven't done anything since. Did release "MoomShell" patcher for SC Lite, but no documentation on changes required to drivers.
- M3 SD: Released SD drivers, supplied a M3 SD for testing and reverse engineering.
- M3 CF: Nothing. Unlock sequence and register addresses provided by MightyMax IIRC.
- Neoflash MK2/3: Provided drivers, helped to add them to gba_nds_fat and also made improvements to the library (the original caching layer in gba_nds_fat was written by them).
- GBAMP CF (same company as M3): Basically nothing. I did this all with the help of other people on these forums (DarkFader in particular).
- GBAMP SD: Nothing. No support for this device at all.
- G6 (same company as M3): Released a precompiled library, requests for source have been denied.
- EZ4 SD: Gave read-only driver source to Infantile Paralyser (author of MoonShell). I haven't had contact with them.
- NinjaDS: Provided drivers, had extensive contact with them while getting the drivers to work.
- Max Media Player/Dock: Nothing. Register addresses were found in MoonShell source.
Many of the cases where drivers were provided to Infantile Paralyser / discovered in MoonShell source may be due to langauge barriers. Despite the company not providing any help, the GBAMP CF is still the best option for homebrew in my opinion, since all NDS features (firmware, launchers, drivers) have been written by members of the homebrew community and have been customised for our purposes.
Mods: Feel free to split this to another topic and remove this note.
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#104673 - Extreme Coder - Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:12 pm
There goes what was probably the best homebrew( and will be for a while) for the DS dead. First we lose LiraNuna, now DragonMinded.
I wonder who's next now? This IRC drama shit really needs to stop or else the homebrew scene will be no more...
#104678 - HyperHacker - Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:33 pm
This is one reason I don't bother with IRC.
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#104689 - Darkflame - Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:30 pm
Good grief, this is horrible :(
DSOrganiser was a fantastic app, one of my most used.
The Homebrew database was particularly one of the most important developments for this community and its users.
It had the best ebook reader, best text editor and the calander/too do list functions was something I actualy used a lot.
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#104702 - Nintendo Maniac 64 - Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:44 pm
You guys seem to forget though that dragonminded released the source to DSOrganize (version 2.3, the newest) 15 days ago, so someone could easily continue his work... (this post was made with retawq and DSlinux :D)
#104703 - OOPMan - Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:53 pm
Sad to see someone go.
Hopefully the source for DS Organize will be picked up and development will continue...
I can understand him being pissed, though. Having to release 3 different versions of your app is, no doubt, a pain...
Anyway, good luck to him in the future...
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#104704 - tepples - Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:02 pm
| Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote: |
| You guys seem to forget though that dragonminded released the source to DSOrganize (version 2.3, the newest) 15 days ago, so someone could easily continue his work |
Under an unacceptable license, I've been told:
| DragonMinded wrote: |
| The source is provided prurely for educational purposes. Nothing is guaranteed to be correct in the sources. I am NOT interested in modifications, and would prefer if you did not modify and release the source on your own. If you spot a bug or a glaring mistake in implementation of something, let me know and I will fix it. This code is in no way to be sold for profit. Contact me if you are unsure of anything at dragonminded@dragonminded.com |
And from the FAQ:
| DragonMinded wrote: |
| As this is a personal project, I wanted to be the only person working on DSOrganize. I didn't want someone going off and hacking in a feature before I was able to do it myself, or my hobby project might be literally yanked from under my feet. Even now when the source is released, the most I would like to hear back on it is if someone finds errors or optimizations that can be made. I also really don't want people releasing their own modified versions, but that is bound to happen. |
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104705 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:08 pm
Yep, someone will have to wait until this whole issue boils down and ask nicely.
I have a few ideas for my own personal fiddling (and it's mostly under the hood, so nothing interesting), which I will attempt if I can get it compiling, but I won't try anything more unless DragonMinded gives us an OK.
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#104706 - kevinc - Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:20 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote: | | You guys seem to forget though that dragonminded released the source to DSOrganize (version 2.3, the newest) 15 days ago, so someone could easily continue his work |
Under an unacceptable license, I've been told:
| DragonMinded wrote: | | The source is provided prurely for educational purposes. Nothing is guaranteed to be correct in the sources. I am NOT interested in modifications, and would prefer if you did not modify and release the source on your own. If you spot a bug or a glaring mistake in implementation of something, let me know and I will fix it. This code is in no way to be sold for profit. Contact me if you are unsure of anything at dragonminded@dragonminded.com |
|
However, that code is linked against GPL projects (namely mikmod and libmad). So as long as DSOrganize links against that, the license is, well, invalid.
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#104711 - TJ - Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:48 pm
Can't say I blame him, #dsdev really is total garbage. Actually, most IRC channels are completely useless.
#104716 - bjoerngiesler - Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:09 pm
| TJ wrote: |
| Can't say I blame him, #dsdev really is total garbage. |
I dunno, I found a lot of help there. Sure, there's a lot of noise as well, but that's true for every place on the net nowadays.
_________________
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#104722 - MiL0 - Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:15 pm
can't make out what's going on from the blog post but it looks like DragonMinded is quiting the ds scene because of something someone said in an irc channel?
Come on, I mean, seriously!? Sounds like someone needs to uninstall mirc, grow some thicker skin and not worry so much about what other people say/do.
As for the license, well he says he doesn't want people to release or edit stuff because he wants to do it himself but that's kinda irrelevant now he's quit the ds scene imo.
#104724 - ssj4android - Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:37 pm
| kevinc wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote: | | You guys seem to forget though that dragonminded released the source to DSOrganize (version 2.3, the newest) 15 days ago, so someone could easily continue his work |
Under an unacceptable license, I've been told:
| DragonMinded wrote: | | The source is provided prurely for educational purposes. Nothing is guaranteed to be correct in the sources. I am NOT interested in modifications, and would prefer if you did not modify and release the source on your own. If you spot a bug or a glaring mistake in implementation of something, let me know and I will fix it. This code is in no way to be sold for profit. Contact me if you are unsure of anything at dragonminded@dragonminded.com |
|
However, that code is linked against GPL projects (namely mikmod and libmad). So as long as DSOrganize links against that, the license is, well, invalid. |
Ah, so people have the moral right to release modified versions, but perhaps not the legal right. Just because DragonMinded violated license agreements doesn't mean other people legally can.
#104740 - tepples - Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:20 am
DragonMinded either did or did not violate license agreements.
If he did not: He intentionally included code covered by the GNU General Public License (namely libmad) in the same address space as his own code and distributed the product. The side effect is that all the code in the same address space becomes subject to the GPL.
If he did: If DragonMinded tries to sue somebody who distributes a fork of DSOrganize under the GPL, then DragonMinded is admitting that he infringed the copyright of the GPL software. At least United States copyright law states that "protection for a work employing preexisting material in which copyright subsists does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully" (17 USC 103), which in this case would put the parts of DSOrganize created by DragonMinded into the public domain. Even if not, plan B is a defense similar to unclean hands.
Even so, DragonMinded might try to get forkers on trademark law. In that case, don't call your fork "DSOrganize". Call it something else and mention that it is based on DSOrganize only in the credits.
If you're planning on selling anything: Have an attorney check my work.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104761 - Sektor - Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:02 pm
Dragonminded's "license" doesn't say you can't release your own versions, it just says he would prefer if you didn't. If you don't mind potentially annoying Dragonminded then you are legally entitled to release modified versions. It's just common courtesy to contact or cooperate with the main coder if you release an update to their program.
_________________
GTAMP.com/DS
#104762 - kevinc - Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:12 pm
| Sektor wrote: |
| Dragonminded's "license" doesn't say you can't release your own versions, it just says he would prefer if you didn't. |
And release under which license? GPL, BSD and all open source licenses are out because of the "no selling" clause. And because of the GPL problem, we can't release under DragonMinded's license, either.
So the only solution would be a [legally allowed, but unpolite] forced GPL rollback - likely against DM's wishes.
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#104766 - TheYak - Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:06 pm
A made a more formal elaboration about his leaving. He made his wishes concerning DSO a little more clear:
| Quote: |
| To those who want to take the source and 'continue' where I left off: please don't. People are not going to do their reasearch, and they will associate your updates with my name. I don't want angry emails or forum posts if something you change messes up a card or screw up a Nintendo DS. If you need, feel free to look at the source and take code snippets, but please give credit where credit is due. I really don't want you taking it upon yourselves to continue the project. |
#104768 - MiL0 - Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:16 pm
then, as someone else suggested, the name should be changed to something other than DSO so that no one gets confused... simple!
now, who's gonna carry on the great work DM started? :P
#104772 - MechaBouncer - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:05 pm
I'm just now hearing about this. This is a sad day. DSO was such a great app and DM put forth a huge amount of effort to make it look professional. He will be missed. Hopefully, a lot can be learned from his source to better other similar projects.
_________________
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Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
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#104776 - OOPMan - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:41 pm
| TheYak wrote: |
A made a more formal elaboration about his leaving. He made his wishes concerning DSO a little more clear:
| Quote: | | To those who want to take the source and 'continue' where I left off: please don't. People are not going to do their reasearch, and they will associate your updates with my name. I don't want angry emails or forum posts if something you change messes up a card or screw up a Nintendo DS. If you need, feel free to look at the source and take code snippets, but please give credit where credit is due. I really don't want you taking it upon yourselves to continue the project. |
|
If he released it as open source then it is the responsibiltiy of whomever continues the project to ensure that the previous developer does not get bothered with questions about the forked version.
A better idea would be to rename a fork of the DSO 2.3 source and make it explicitly clear that DM is not associated with it.
Problem solved.
_________________
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#104779 - jester - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:43 pm
some of us are to blame we didnt give him enough praise and we just kept waiting for a new release from him maybe its time everyone apologized to him he may come back
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#104780 - knight0fdragon - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:44 pm
just shut up jester you do not know the reasoning behind it
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#104781 - jester - Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:45 pm
well maybe he is angered KoD no need to tell me to shut up
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#104795 - Dan2552 - Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:43 pm
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| just shut up jester you do not know the reasoning behind it |
That is a very rude way to say something, especially in a thread like this. Next are you planning to drive jester away from the 'scene'? He was just posting his opinion.
#104797 - knight0fdragon - Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:19 pm
jester just has issues of putting 2 cents in to things that just doesn't belong, he is one of the reasons why I care not for making my engine anymore.
Dragonminded will probably end up coming back, LiraNuna is back in IRC after all, the storm just needs to calm.
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#104801 - OOPMan - Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:33 pm
You stopped coding your engine because of jester?
That's kinda funny really...
"Jester killed my engine..."
Back on topic, though...
_________________
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#104811 - LiraNuna - Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:42 pm
We all know who's the real fault is at.
The same one that made DynaStab, DragonMinded and me to leave.
DragonMinded DO NOT want ANYONE to continue his work. he released the sources for people to learn, not to change.
Please consider his request.
| Quote: |
| Dragonminded will probably end up coming back, LiraNuna is back in IRC after all, the storm just needs to calm. |
I'm back for my friends. not for the scene. you fail to understand the reason he left.
_________________
Private property.
Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again.
#104818 - MiL0 - Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:25 pm
| LiraNuna wrote: |
| I'm back for my friends. not for the scene. you fail to understand the reason he left. |
so you're hanging out in DS coding channels on IRC and posting on a DS dev forum but you've left the scene?
#104826 - tepples - Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:02 pm
Remember when BeOS died? That's how the DSOrganize users must feel.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104836 - emphyrian - Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:46 am
Holy fu*k, I dont even know where to begin.
So I wont.
#104837 - kevinc - Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:13 am
| TJ wrote: |
| Can't say I blame him, #dsdev really is total garbage. Actually, most IRC channels are completely useless. |
Oh, I remember once I was there. There was Payk and some guy repeatedly calling him a Nazi only because he was German, and making fun of him for not knowing proper English. The guy might have been an asshole, but nobody seemed to think it was wrong. Mods seemed to be sleeping at the time.
I've lurked once or twice since then, nothing useful seems to happen there.
</off-topic rant>
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Last edited by kevinc on Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
#104840 - Mr. Picklesworth - Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:16 am
Yep... I'm almost tempted to stop with my various mini / useless programs and start building my own DSO :(
Oh well, I have some ideas. Just don't want to interfere if DragonMinded ever comes back...
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#104849 - OOPMan - Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:56 am
Yeah, a common thread here seems to be that IRC is crap...
I think we all realised thatb a long time ago, though :-)
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...
#104851 - lambi1982 - Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:17 am
And on next weeks episode of " The young and the speechless" Mary hopes to find love again......
Whats going one here guys.... Stop letting all this stuff get so huge. Drama people....DRAMA
I cant believe we have to read this when there is so much homebrew to talk about. I remember when I first started hanging around the NDS dev scene it was so exciting, and now seems like there is always something.
Appreciation of DM's software should be all that is talked about in times like these. Coders who spend lots and lots... and lots of time creating software shouldn't have to deal with crap like this.
not just to DM, I mean this for all coders, " Like, C'mon People"
_________________
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#104870 - Abcd1234 - Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:46 pm
| LiraNuna wrote: |
| DragonMinded DO NOT want ANYONE to continue his work. he released the sources for people to learn, not to change. |
Once he convolved his work with GPL'd code and then released binaries to the world, he had no choice but to release the source. Further, he gave up any rights he had to control what people did with it.
#104871 - Lick - Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:50 pm
Abcd, are you talking about 'his right'? You should really know who you're talking about because even if you don't like his personality or actions, you should respect his works. Disregarding all the bullshit that has been going on, LOOK at what this guy has done and how hard he has worked.
You have no right at all, to speak about his rights.
_________________
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#104874 - kevinc - Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:09 pm
| Lick wrote: |
Abcd, are you talking about 'his right'? You should really know who you're talking about because even if you don't like his personality or actions, you should respect his works. Disregarding all the bullshit that has been going on, LOOK at what this guy has done and how hard he has worked.
You have no right at all, to speak about his rights. |
He's talking about his legal rights about the code, not about his moral rights or his rights as a person. He waived the right to use a propietary license the moment he linked against GPL code - he must give others the same rights to his code that he got from the programmers of libmad and mikmod. He can't expect people to respect his license if he doesn't respect other developers' ones.
It's NOT personal. It's a license issue. Specifically section 2b of the GPL, which DragonMinded accepted the moment he distributed a binary with linked GPL code. License-wise, his achievements or departure are irrelevant.
Again, it's not personal. Don't get so riled up.
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#104876 - Lick - Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:18 pm
I understood his reasoning, thanks for expanding it though.
But if he talks about any rights, I just want to point out that DragonMinded still at least has a personal right, that we as persons should respect.
-Lick
_________________
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#104887 - tepples - Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:48 pm
So I guess "There's already DSOrganize" isn't a reason to discourage the DSBlue developer now, is it?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104895 - MechaBouncer - Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:18 pm
I was thinking the same thing. Ironic how that topic got overrun by what it is pretty much a moot point now. Well, some of it had merit.
_________________
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Kingston SD-C02G JAPAN 2GB MicroSD
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#104904 - Darkflame - Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:49 am
| tepples wrote: |
| So I guess "There's already DSOrganize" isn't a reason to discourage the DSBlue developer now, is it? |
Yes, and then DSBlue will quit in about a year, but not to worry...another developer will have already started again with his own system!
And the cycle repeats.
(Besides, I was hopeing DSBlue would stick too being "the all-around WiFi uber-app" rather then become a media or file manager like DSOrganiser.)
Sorry, but Im getting very cynical at the general humanity of people.
Soo many great developers work extreamly hard, normaly with no help from card markers, then they get pissed on by underappriateing
end users.
Is no wonder people quit.
The community is far too dependant on a few "uber-coders" makeing mega app's, imo. And they are leaving.
Heck, Im started to be glade moonshell's creator dosnt speak english so well, he might have already left too by now!
_________________
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#104907 - brennan - Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:22 am
| LiraNuna wrote: |
The same one that made DynaStab ... to leave.
|
Did DynaStab formally leave the scene? I never heard anything about it, 'tis a shame, he was a damn cool guy.
_________________
Hardware: GBAMP v2, Datel MML, NDS phat (Flashme v7)
#104915 - tepples - Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:38 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| Yes, and then DSBlue will quit in about a year, but not to worry...another developer will have already started again with his own system! |
The cycle ends when one of the ?ber-apps becomes Free Software soon after it becomes usable.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#104936 - MaHe - Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:53 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Darkflame wrote: | | Yes, and then DSBlue will quit in about a year, but not to worry...another developer will have already started again with his own system! |
The cycle ends when one of the ?ber-apps becomes Free Software soon after it becomes usable. |
Something like this?
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=11345
_________________
[ Crimson and Black Nintendo DS Lite | CycloDS Evolution | EZ-Flash 3-in-1 | 1 GB Transcend microSD ]
#104937 - LiraNuna - Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:54 pm
| MiL0 wrote: |
| LiraNuna wrote: | | I'm back for my friends. not for the scene. you fail to understand the reason he left. |
so you're hanging out in DS coding channels on IRC and posting on a DS dev forum but you've left the scene? |
I stopped coding for the DS. just like DM does now.
Edit: I left for the same reason DM did. and don't let other bullshit your mind, like he does now.
_________________
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Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again.
Last edited by LiraNuna on Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
#104938 - MaHe - Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:57 pm
But why did you request to delete your account here then? :>
_________________
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#104983 - Lynx - Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:57 pm
Hmm.. Could have sworn I posted a message in this topic.. but.. I don't see it.. Ahh well..
_________________
NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#105003 - Lazy1 - Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:51 am
My advice would be not let any one person get to you.
For example, when I released a test port of Wolf3d for the PSP there were a few bad comments to the tune of "it doesn't have sound, im not playing" or "omg gfx sux".
I keep on going despite that since a greater percentage of people are able to use stuff I port and are mostly greatful for me doing so.
The flashcart issue is a problem, but you can only do what you can.
If there is no driver for the device, then thats just it. They have to wait until support is added.
If you don't like the way things are done in IRC, stop going there.
There are many forums (well, atleast this one) you can visit and ask for help in.
What is this "scene" anyway? I thought that NDS homebrew was developed by people
who like to code for this platform?
Kinda sucks how a few people on IRC can make you hate programming for the nds.
But whatever you want to do, good luck.
[Offtopic]
The GPL was mentioned in this thread...
I will again take the time to mention how much I despise that license.
[/Offtopic]
#105008 - HyperHacker - Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:27 am
[offtopic] You're not alone in your dislike of GPL. I wouldn't say despise but I'm not a fan. [/offtopic]
Like Lazy1 said, there's always going to be criticizms. When I made a new layout for my website, some people complained. One person said the fonts were much too big in Linux. A valid complaint, so I made them smaller. Another just said it sucked and didn't provide any specific reason why, so I promptly told them to STFU. I didn't throw out all that work just because someone felt like flaming.
People have complained that my DS boot menu (still in progress) is pointless because Moonshell, DSOrganize, and the firmware already do the job. I haven't stopped working on it because of that. I've simply been focusing on making it do things that these apps don't do.
Hell if I just stormed off every time someone complained about something I did, there's at least one forum I'd have left years ago. I can't seem to make a post there discussing things I don't like about any given video game without someone (usually this one person actually) nearly starting a flame war over it. Simple solution: I just ignore their posts.
In short: Some complaints are perfectly valid and should be addressed. Others are generally a sign that you should ignore the person making them. But very, very few are a good reason to just give up.
_________________
I'm a PSP hacker now, but I still <3 DS.
#105070 - Darkflame - Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:55 pm
Well, if your talking at me there, I specificaly said people shouldnt spend their valueable time makeing something the same as someone else *unless* they are going to make it better or provide extra functions in some way.
Oh, and its indeed true that critisism is fine when people give constructive reasons for them.
People that just complain or say "this sucks" deserve no attention.
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#105072 - Darkflame - Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:56 pm
| MaHe wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Darkflame wrote: | | Yes, and then DSBlue will quit in about a year, but not to worry...another developer will have already started again with his own system! |
The cycle ends when one of the ?ber-apps becomes Free Software soon after it becomes usable. |
Something like this?
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=11345 |
Hasnt become usable really :p
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#105084 - iball - Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:54 pm
| LiraNuna wrote: |
| MiL0 wrote: | | LiraNuna wrote: | | I'm back for my friends. not for the scene. you fail to understand the reason he left. |
so you're hanging out in DS coding channels on IRC and posting on a DS dev forum but you've left the scene? |
I stopped coding for the DS. just like DM does now.
Edit: I left for the same reason DM did. and don't let other bullshit your mind, like he does now. |
Funny, but didn't you state earlier you were moving over to the PSP "scene" because you felt it was easier/better to program for?
#105115 - knight0fdragon - Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:38 am
try to stay on topic please, there is no point in bringing that up
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#105150 - El Hobito - Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:56 pm
imo the community is better off without whiney kid's and their inflated egos. Im really beginning to hate these forums now.
#105225 - Lynx - Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:17 pm
"better" is in the eye of the beholder. Some might thing one application is better then the other, and others think just the opposite.
And the only way "This sux" even matters is if there is a $100 bill attached that said "please do this."
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#105278 - kerrle - Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:13 am
| kevinc wrote: |
| ...And release under which license? GPL, BSD and all open source licenses are out because of the "no selling" clause... |
There is no "no selling" clause in the GPL - you're free to sell whatever you want. The only condition is that you also provide the source. Considering my M3 Lite came with a CD full of software, it wouldn't be hard at all to concieve of including source code in the same package.
#105292 - kevinc - Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:32 pm
| kerrle wrote: |
| There is no "no selling" clause in the GPL - you're free to sell whatever you want. The only condition is that you also provide the source. Considering my M3 Lite came with a CD full of software, it wouldn't be hard at all to concieve of including source code in the same package. |
The "no selling" clause is in DragonMinded's license. :)
That's why I said it's not compatible with the GPL.
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#105298 - knight0fdragon - Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:02 pm
man you people need to read the GPL, you can't sell the code, but you can charge a fee for distrubution, and the only parts of the source that need to be released, are the parts that are protected by GPL, which does not have to be publically available either, only upon request to the author
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#105307 - tepples - Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:11 pm
| kevinc wrote: |
| The "no selling" clause is in DragonMinded's license. :) |
And this clause ceased to have effect the moment DragonMinded linked in libmad and distributed the combination.
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#105322 - kerrle - Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:46 pm
Exactly; if he distributed an app linked to GPL code he has a legal obligation to follow its license.
#105324 - MaHe - Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:49 pm
Oh, darn, his NDSDEV site went down, along with all the libs, sources, examples, tools and so on. Did someone download them and can share?
Pretty please with sugar and cherry on top?
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#105326 - kevinc - Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:21 pm
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| man you people need to read the GPL, you can't sell the code, but you can charge a fee for distrubution |
Oh, whatever. If you can't charge X for the code and Y for distribution, you can charge 0 for the code and X + Y for distribution. It's the same end result.
| Quote: |
| and the only parts of the source that need to be released, are the parts that are protected by GPL |
If the code links against any GPL code, the program in its entirety becomes GPL.
Clause 2b
You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.
| Quote: |
| which does not have to be publically available either, only upon request to the author |
Yet you are legally bound by the license to obey any single request made to you. If you want to receive hundreds of e-mails and having to reply individually to all of them, it's OK. It's easier setting up a link.
| MaHe wrote: |
| Oh, darn, his NDSDEV site went down, along with all the libs, sources, examples, tools and so on. |
Only got the DSOrganize source. Want that?
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#105328 - Ryan FB - Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:48 pm
| MaHe wrote: |
Oh, darn, his NDSDEV site went down, along with all the libs, sources, examples, tools and so on. Did someone download them and can share?
Pretty please with sugar and cherry on top? |
I've put up a mirror here: http://cryptosystem.org/projects/nds/dsorganize/
#105346 - Lynx - Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:45 pm
| kerrle wrote: |
| The only condition is that you also provide the source. |
Actually, I believe it is "make the source available". You don't even need to provide it with your CD, only information on how to obtain the source if you want it.
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#105355 - kerrle - Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:21 am
Yeah, you're right; I was just summing up.
As long as you make the source reasonably available, you're okay - a link on your website, FTP, an address where source CDs can be ordered for the cost of postage, etc - any of these will work.
Normally I wouldn't have even posted, I just dislike seeing people say the GPL does something it doesn't.
#105361 - Lynx - Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:22 am
Gotcha.. I like the GPL.. And if it was "evil", it would be used as much as it is.. Remember, it's the person doing the coding that decides what liscense their code is under.. If you are "borrowing" code, why would the liscense change? If you want to make your own, using another liscense, write the code yourself.. I don't get the problem. And "why reinvent the wheel" isn't an answer or example. If the guy who invented the wheel placed it under GPL, then deal with it or make your own wheel. Seems simple enough to me..
Selling GPL'd stuff reminds me of the Shareware CDs that used to be next to the checkout for $10 or $15.. I used to think.. Why would anyone pay $10 or $15 for a bunch of progs on a CD that they could download for free? And if they want to keep using them, will need to pay more.. Well, not everyone knows where to download them from, or has the time to download them, etc.. Ok.. enough rambling..
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#105377 - Optihut - Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:11 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Selling GPL'd stuff reminds me of the Shareware CDs that used to be next to the checkout for $10 or $15.. |
What about the rest of the files, like sound and graphics, though? If you can download the code of a game for free, you still lack all the other files to properly run it or do they have to be provided as well?
| Lazy1 wrote: |
| The GPL, while maybe not "evil" is completely useless. |
Just out of curiosity, what specifically is so useless about it? Granted, I only briefly skimmed the GPL, but at a first glance it seemed ok to me.
#105400 - tepples - Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:09 pm
| Optihut wrote: |
| Lynx wrote: | | Selling GPL'd stuff reminds me of the Shareware CDs that used to be next to the checkout for $10 or $15.. |
What about the rest of the files, like sound and graphics, though? If you can download the code of a game for free, you still lack all the other files to properly run it or do they have to be provided as well? |
Doom and Quake by Id Software were published under GPL at their respective engines' end of life. But the .wad files for Doom and the equivalent for Quake are under the old restrictive license, and the only lawful way to get them is to buy a copy or to use the demo episode. The doom.exe program is an interpreter for the .wad file, which is distributed under a separate license, just as a program written in Perl can be distributed under a separate license from the Perl interpreter.
| Quote: |
| Lazy1 wrote: | | The GPL, while maybe not "evil" is completely useless. |
Just out of curiosity, what specifically is so useless about it? |
Probably somebody who wants to take from the community without giving back to the community. The GPL and other copyleft licenses are useful for encouraging developers to make their own works free software as well.
I split the "GPL is useless" digression out into a separate topic. However, I cannot split individual comments.
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