#117546 - Darkflame - Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:08 pm
Whoa...Picodrive update :)
*grabs*
| In this post, Dood77 wrote: |
| Glad to see a more common system's emulator being updated! *grumbles about lazy NES/SNES devs* |
Is there anything actualy left to DO on the Nes?
NesDS seemed pretty perfect to me. (very compatible, save support, rewind function, filters, ect)
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#117548 - jester - Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:00 pm
SNES devs could work on this more aswell i guess
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#117601 - tepples - Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:02 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
Is there anything actualy left to DO on the Nes?
NesDS seemed pretty perfect to me. (very compatible, save support, rewind function, filters, ect) |
nesDS had no support for DPCM sound. This means no drums in Super Mario Bros. 3 and no sound for a 4-line clear in Tetramino (homebrew).
Both nesDS and PocketNES had no support for raw PCM sound. This means no voices in Skate or Die 2 or Wheel of Fortune or SCAT, fewer sound effects in Battletoads. Worse, it means no voice prompts in Big Bird's Hide and Speak, making five of its six modes unplayable.
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#117633 - Dood77 - Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:44 am
Of course this might depend on a few more protocols being written but multiplayer over wifi on nesDS would be amazing.
And startropics 2 doesnt work at all with nesDS, although it works with pocketNES...
Also about 1 in 10 save states becomes corrupt and about half of those crash nesDS right away. It would be great if we didnt need SRAM to save the game normally, so i didnt have to worry about QPC with my supercard
The problems with snesDS are obvious, but snezziDS has been getting some updates recently...
#117748 - Darkflame - Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:38 am
oh well, just never came accross the problems.
Playing earthbound on my GBAMP works fine, the save system works like a real game and it creates *.sav files.
As for multiplayer over WiFi, it would be very nice.
However, the speed with doing that is tricky, could involve dual-emulation even, or freezing the game to keep in sycn.
WLAN would be more possible, but then you got protocal problems. (has there been a DS<>DS homebrew yet?)
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#117766 - HyperHacker - Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:14 am
NES multiplayer is only one console with multiple controllers though. How would emulating multiple consoles help? Or did you mean something else by "dual emulation"? Seems all you'd have to do is stream the video and sound to player 2 and their input back to player 1. It would be quite prone to latency, but not too hard on CPU power. You could disable sound for a speed boost (especially since you're probably in the same room and thus can both hear it coming from one DS).
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#117767 - tepples - Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:33 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| NES multiplayer is only one console with multiple controllers though. How would emulating multiple consoles help? Or did you mean something else by "dual emulation"? Seems all you'd have to do is stream the video and sound to player 2 and their input back to player 1. |
Kaillera style netplay means you emulate the console on each machine, and they only trade input streams. But dswifi homebrew runs only within range of an 802.11b access point because it doesn't support "ad hoc" or "soft AP" mode. If you're within range of an open access point, then you're probably in a residence, why not just use a PC?
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#117796 - knight0fdragon - Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:00 pm
because the PC is not the same experience, not everyone that has a wireless router has a PC, because they are in a hotel or airport, because a bunch of friends are over your place and your NES is smashed from a drunk night, to show a girl in hopes of getting laid, to one day play nintendo from somebody in space, to be on the shitter without having a bulky laptop around, to not be confined to certain areas and play it while cooking, eating, exercising, making love. Because your little brother hogs the computer, because your older brother beats you up if you touch his computer.... need any more?
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#117800 - GrizzlyAdams - Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:35 pm
I wouldn't say NES / SNES emu devs are lazy. I ported fceultra and infones myself, and they both run like garbage. I'm not sure where the speed problems are since I don't have a way to profile the code yet.
Possible slowdowns:
Every cart read has do be done thru the mapper code which slows things down considerably.
CPU emulation has to be Cycle Accurate. This means you have to keep track of how many emulated instructions you've handled and keep that in sync with the other parts of the system.
PPU is a complex little beast and is affected by many things. You need it to stay in perfect sync with the cpu or you can get garbled video in some games.
PSG isn't that bad, but many emulators use tricks to clean up the sound. This takes more host cpu time and often relies on floating point math.
#117823 - tepples - Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:18 pm
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| because the PC is not the same experience, not everyone that has a wireless router has a PC, because they are in a hotel or airport |
As far as I can tell, most routers in a hotel or airport are designed for paid use with laptop computers, not free use with Nintendo DS video game systems. They won't route your DS's packets until you authenticate and pay using Nintendo DS Browser, which is not for sale in my part of the world, and a valid VISA or MasterCard card number.
| Quote: |
| to be on the shitter without having a bulky laptop around |
What about a bulky wireless router and a bulky generator to power it?
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#117828 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| As far as I can tell, most routers in a hotel or airport are designed for paid use with laptop computers, not free use with Nintendo DS video game systems. They won't route your DS's packets until you authenticate and pay using Nintendo DS Browser, which is not for sale in my part of the world, and a valid VISA or MasterCard card number. |
Many places have free wifi. Sometimes there's a web based login, but just as often there's not. I've played my DS online from two libraries and a hotel room.
As for improvements to nesDS, I'd love to see some of the more obscure and/or pirate mappers supported. Because of mappers, there's *ALWAYS* room for improvement in any NES emulator. I don't think any emulator supports all of the known mappers.
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#117829 - tepples - Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:50 pm
| Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | As far as I can tell, most routers in a hotel or airport are designed for paid use with laptop computers, not free use with Nintendo DS video game systems. They won't route your DS's packets until you authenticate and pay using Nintendo DS Browser, which is not for sale in my part of the world, and a valid VISA or MasterCard card number. |
Many places have free wifi. Sometimes there's a web based login, but just as often there's not. I've played my DS online from two libraries and a hotel room. |
Using Nintendo WFC games, or using homebrew? If the former, then the hotel APs may have been part of Nintendo's contract with Wayport and other AP providers.
| Quote: |
| As for improvements to nesDS, I'd love to see some of the more obscure and/or pirate mappers supported. |
Pirate mappers? Not on this forum.
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#117883 - HyperHacker - Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:07 am
"Pirate mappers" just means the mappers used in NES games made by pirates.
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#117910 - tepples - Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:50 pm
So why would an emulator need to support mappers used only by cartridges containing an infringing copy of a game?
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#117930 - Gunnex - Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:06 pm
Because some pirates are fun.
#117932 - PeterM - Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:51 pm
I think tepples' point was that you would own the originals, making pirate ROM support unnecessary.
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#117936 - HyperHacker - Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:03 pm
Some pirate carts actually did contain original games that simply weren't licensed.
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#117939 - tepples - Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:26 pm
Are you talking about games published by Tengen, Color Dreams, Camerica, Sachen, etc.? Those are "unlicensed" (in the same sense as gbadev.org 2004Mbit Competition for GBA), not "pirate". Or are you talking about unlicensed original games that appeared only on pirate multicarts? Or are you talking about things like Somari and Kart Fighter that pirate the characters but not the program?
If anyone feels that this discussion is going too far...
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#118006 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:58 am
I was talking about unlicensed games form unknown developers. They're often called "pirate originals." Basically stuff like Somari or Kart Fighters, though I don't personally care much about either of those since they're crap. There are better games from the same or similar developers, though, like Super Mario World, Samurai Spirits 2 or The Lion King (there was a licensed Lion King game from someone like THQ, but the "pirate original" is better). This same category of developers also put out a lot of games that didn't use copyrighted characters. Quite a few actually. There's a good Romance Of The Three Kingdoms based action game and another based on the Yellow Emperor legends.
I don't know what the legality of these games is from an emulating point of view. I would assume that they were uncopyrighted from the beginning, so there's nothing to infringe against when having, using or even distributing the ROMs. Of course the ones that use copyrighted characters would have been illegal for the developers to make and sell, but I don't know about the legality of owning a ROM of one of those (or the original cartridge for that matter).
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#118018 - Gunnex - Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:16 am
Don't forget Dizzy games, NESDS messes up some tiles/colors and NesterDS only works with DtA.