#134634 - yellowstar - Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:54 am
I have some questions about networks.
These are questions about getting the hardware
needed.
I don't have a network.
Wired
Neither of the computers I have
have an Adapter for the wired NIC card
inside both of them.
But both of them have a wired NIC card
inside.
Months ago I got a cheap cable to connect the two,
but after it arrived I found out both of my computers
didn't have adapters.
I still have that cable.
So,
the only thing I need for wired networking is
adapters for both of my computers.
On average,
how much does it cost to have
a computer repair
store put in adapters?
I know I can do it myself,
but I don't want to do that.
Wireless
As I metioned in the above section,
both of my computers don't even have
adapters for wired networking.
So,
would a wireless NIC card(or a adapter)
work on these computers.
Both of these computers have
Windows 98 and XP on them.
My XP is an ME upgraded to XP.
If a wireless NIC card would work on these
computers,
does anybody know
of a cheap wireless NIC card,(or a wireless adapter)
and a router?
I am stuck with Dial-Up were I live.)=
So,
is there any adapters for a phone line(Dial-Up)
and a DSL cord?
All routers I saw on the Internet can use DSL.
None of them can use phone lines.(Dial-Up)
#134641 - Tikker - Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:50 am
to network 2 pc's you can either go USB to USB, or NIC to NIC
NIC to NIC is far more common
Network cards cost like 10-30 dollars each
then you just need a crossover cable
or, if you want to have both pc's be able to talk to each other AND the internet, buy a cheap router (and 2 network cards)
then you just need to go Modem to WAN port on router
and each PC nic goes ethernet (cat5) to the LAN ports on router
#134662 - kusma - Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:55 pm
Do we really recommend wired networks in 2007?
#134672 - tepples - Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:22 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| Do we really recommend wired networks in 2007? |
Yes. A wired network is more resistant to common attacks than an open or WEP network, and a WPA-only network will reject a Nintendo DS system. Besides, the 2.45 GHz band is crowded; which channel does a microwave oven run on again?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#134723 - GrizzlyAdams - Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:56 am
There are also cheap USB 2.0 10/100 ethernet adapters that work quite well. Plug them in, stick the cd in the drive, and let the installer software take care of everything. You don't want someone from a computer repair shop touching your computer. They charge you excessive amounts of money to do the simplest of tasks, most do evil things (like making copies of your harddrive to search thru later, for your product keys, any porn you happen to have, and report you if they find anything you shouldn't have)
As far as networking to your DS, any 802.11b access point with mac filtering will do. Be sure to set the TXRates to 2Mbit, since thats the max the DS can handle. I've got my DS wifi network setup with mac filtering, a captive portal (for anyone who is smart enough to get past the mac filter), and no route to the outside world. The only protocol I actually let thru to my lan is ds midi wifi.
There are routers with dialup fallback. I've personally used one.
Here is one with 802.11g wireless, 4x 10/100 lan ports, a 10/100 wan port (separate dsl/cable modem with ethernet port required) and rs232 port (for an external dialup-modem):
http://www.netgear.com/Products/VPNandSSL/WirelessVPNFirewallRouters/FWG114P.aspx?detail=Specifications
I show 3 on ebay right now.
#134763 - Lynx - Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:33 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| kusma wrote: | | Do we really recommend wired networks in 2007? |
Yes. A wired network is more resistant to common attacks than an open or WEP network, and a WPA-only network will reject a Nintendo DS system. Besides, the 2.45 GHz band is crowded; which channel does a microwave oven run on again? |
Also, if you want any kind of speed? Sure, for the DS it doesn't really matter because of the 2Mb limit, but to copy files.. it does. There is a huge difference between a 54Mb WiFi and 100Mb wired.. On top of the fact, that the more computers/devices you add, the less WiFi bandwidth you have to share.
So, although WiFi sounds great, and is usually faster than your internet conneciton anyway, in a real network envirnment, always pick wired over WiFi if you have the option.
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NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#134769 - Tikker - Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:17 pm
wifi is also just a half duplex system, where as wired ethernet is full duplex
I love my wifi (I've got 3 different wifi access points in my home) but I'll take wired 99% of the time
#134779 - kusma - Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:02 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| Also, if you want any kind of speed? |
I switched to wireless a couple of years ago, and I'm not looking back. I generally experience the DSL as the primary bottleneck in my everyday use. Then again, I mostly read email and surf the web - but I thought that was what Joe Schmoe also did. Less wires, and thus a more tidy apartment > fast internal network if you ask me.
#134785 - tepples - Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:30 pm
| kusma wrote: |
| I generally experience the DSL as the primary bottleneck in my everyday use. Then again, I mostly read email and surf the web - but I thought that was what Joe Schmoe also did. |
That's what Joe Schmoe with one computer does. Joe Schmoe with two computers stores a bunch of music and video files on the computer with the bigger hard drive and streams them to the computer with the bigger screen.
| Quote: |
| Less wires, and thus a more tidy apartment |
In some countries, Joe Schmoe is more likely to own a house or at least have a landlord who is sympathetic to installing CAT-5e cable.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#134792 - yellowstar - Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:19 pm
I know about USB wired ethernet adapters.
The USB wired adapters for ethernet,
which I saw on the Internet,(I didn't search very long)
had at least one major problem:
The cord wouldn't stay in.
So,
Does anybody know of any good
USB wired ethernet adapters,
which dosen't have the above problem?
Also,
does anybody know of any good,
cheap USB wireless adapters?
#134796 - yellowstar - Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:20 pm
Does this work with a DS?
I'am assuming it does.
Also, does it work with a DS and Dial-Up?
I'am assuming it does.
I know commercial games
won't work very well with
Dial-Up.
#135390 - yellowstar - Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:47 am
Is it possible,
to have a wireless network,(without shared internet, over the network)
without a router,
and with USB wireless adapters?(Only with 2 computers)
I know I can't use this wireless network with a DS,
or any WiFi device.
I know I could use a dongle for WiFi.
#135398 - calcprogrammer1 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:00 am
Ad Hoc mode can be used by laptop and desktop computers to create networks without an access point (a router is a combination of a wireless AP and a 4 port switch, and a DSL/Cable WAN port). I'm not sure if it will work with the DS or not, it should show up as an AP but the DS may not work at all in any type of ad hoc network. Though, Multiplayer (official DS games) is pretty much an ad hoc network, but I think that uses a proprietary Nintendo protocol, and not standard WiFi.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#135401 - Tikker - Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:25 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| a router is a combination of a wireless AP and a 4 port switch, and a DSL/Cable WAN port. |
uh, not really
router is a layer 3 device that intelligently filters and/or forwards packets
#135407 - calcprogrammer1 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:29 am
Then what is a switch? It also filters packets. I have a 5 port switch hooked to my 4 port router, because I have a lot of PC's. The router doesn't even notice the switch exists, it just thinks the switch's ports are its own, because PC's on the switch get IP addresses from the router the same way they would if they were plugged straight into the switch.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#135414 - Tikker - Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:43 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| Then what is a switch? It also filters packets. I have a 5 port switch hooked to my 4 port router, because I have a lot of PC's. The router doesn't even notice the switch exists, it just thinks the switch's ports are its own, because PC's on the switch get IP addresses from the router the same way they would if they were plugged straight into the switch. |
switch is a layer2 device, it does NOT filter packets
it builds an arp table that basically tells it which port an IP belongs to
I think mostly you're just getting your terminology mixed up
I can pretty much guarantee you don't have a 4 port router
you'll have a gateway (small router connected internally to a small switch, probably with a wireless AP attached)
I know that most boxes will label them routers, but they're gateways, not true routers
#135415 - calcprogrammer1 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:57 am
I probably have a gateway then, it's a standard "router" box, 4 LAN ports, a WiFi 54G AP, and a WAN port, has DCHP server and assigns IP's to computers, and then just a standard 5 port switch, where one of the ports goes to the router.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#135418 - Tikker - Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:17 am
yup
the gateway is a router, switch, wireless switch all in one
#135429 - OSW - Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:36 am
just wondering if someone might be able to help me.
I have a dsl modem/"router" (only has a 1 usb and 1 ethernet output though) which i recently set up in bridge mode so i could let my wireless "router" do the work.
My wireless "router" (?) has four ports, a wan port and a AP, has DCHP server (although disabled) so sounds something like calcprogrammer1's "gateway".
Now getting to the point, i have a spare router lying around, it's basically the same except it doesn't have the AP. Since i might wantg to hook up another computer to my network soon (all my LAN ports are full) is it possible for me to set it up to act like an extension of the LAN ports? (is "switch" the right terminology?)
sorry i'm kinda new at this stuff, dunno if it's a good topic to put this in.
#135442 - masscat - Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:26 pm
| OSW wrote: |
| Now getting to the point, i have a spare router lying around, it's basically the same except it doesn't have the AP. Since i might wantg to hook up another computer to my network soon (all my LAN ports are full) is it possible for me to set it up to act like an extension of the LAN ports? (is "switch" the right terminology?) |
You can connect your second router in two ways.
1. Ignore the WAN port and connect one of the LAN side ports to one of the LAN side ports on your first router. This will extend your Ethernet network onto the 3 other LAN ports. This will gain you two more ports (you loose one of the 3 to whatever you unplugged from the first router). This is just using the switch/hub part of the second router.
2. Connect the WAN port to the LAN side of your first router. If you can bridge the WAN and LAN side Ethernets of the second router (unlikely) then this will extend your Ethernet network onto all 4 LAN ports.
Without the bridge you will be setting up a second IP network on the LAN side of the second router. This second IP network cannot overlap that of your first network (if your first IP network is 192.168.7.0/255.255.255.0 then second would have to use, for example, 192.168.12.0/255.255.255.0) and the first router will have to be told how to route IP packets to the second router. This is probably not what you want.
Some network info
An Ethernet network can logically be separated into two parts.
1. The cabling, hubs and switches.
2. The devices that communicate with each other over the network (the Ethernet NIC in your PC for example). These devices each have a unique address, known as the MAC address (the 12 hexadecimal digit number often written as 01:23:45:67:89:ab).
Devices communicate with each other using Ethernet frames. These frames contain the MAC address of the source of the frame and the MAC address of the destination and the payload data. When a device sees a frame with a destination address that is the same as its MAC address then it will take that frame off the network and process it.
When an Ethernet frame reaches an Ethernet hub then the hub will repeat the frame on all of its ports except the one on which the frame was received.
An Ethernet switch is similarly to a hub but uses the Ethernet more efficiently. It monitors the source MAC addresses of the Ethernet frames that pass through it, using them to build up a map of which MAC addresses are connected to which of its ports. If the destination MAC address of a frame is found within this map then it is only repeated on the mapped port saving bandwidth on all of its other ports.
The mapping of MAC address to port is many to one as there may be more than one device connected to a single port of a switch (a second switch/hub could be connected to the port). This would be the case for OSW above.
NOTE: there is no mention of IP in the above. An Ethernet network does not care or know what is in the payload of its frames.
Regarding what an IP router is, quoting RFC1812:
| Quote: |
This memo defines and discusses requirements for devices that perform
the network layer forwarding function of the Internet protocol suite.
The Internet community usually refers to such devices as IP routers or
simply routers; The OSI community refers to such devices as
intermediate systems. Many older Internet documents refer to these
devices as gateways, a name which more recently has largely passed out
of favor to avoid confusion with application gateways.
An IP router can be distinguished from other sorts of packet switching
devices in that a router examines the IP protocol header as part of
the switching process. It generally removes the Link Layer header a
message was received with, modifies the IP header, and replaces the
Link Layer header for retransmission. |
#135446 - OSW - Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Alright thanks a bunch for the info. I read about how to do no.1 somewhere (specifically another router's guide) but i wasn't sure if it worked only for particular routers.
i think i'll set it up that way, since i doubt i'll be connecting more than two more computer at least in a wired fashion, probably for ever.
A question, by using method 1 do i require any configuration on the second router? will typing in the router ip take me to the first router's settings?
Thanks again for the help.
#135454 - Tikker - Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:35 pm
definitely just just #1
option2 requires way more tinkering than necessary
by using just the switch ports of the gateway box, you're essentially just using it as a dumb switch
no config necessary
#135456 - masscat - Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:50 pm
Having two routers configured as in option 2 can be useful if you want to put untrusted/unsafe computers/devices on your network. This is particularly relevant to the DS which uses WEP for wireless encryption, therefore making access to the wireless network easily crackable (this requires the second router has a wireless AP).
Using the firewall functionality of the second router allows you to restrict or block access to you first network and the Internet connection.
#135458 - Lynx - Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:19 pm
I'm not even going to try to correct any of the incorrect information provided. Layer 2 switches vs layer 3 switches.... Router vs gateway, etc..
But, I would suggest trying #1.. if it doesn't work (No link lights) check for a crossover button for one of the ports, or a port specific for connecting a switch/hub. Sorry if I overlooked someone saying this already. I didn't see a brand/model listed to give an exact answer for your hardware.
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#135463 - calcprogrammer1 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:19 pm
The best method I know of for extra ports is 1 "router" (actually a gateway) and 1 switch. Modem to gateway's WAN port, then gateway's LAN to switch's LAN, you now have 3 ports on the gateway and 4 ports (assuming a 5 port switch) on the switch.
A while ago when I needed more ports, I was thinking of getting another router, but then I read about option #2 above, and decided to go with the (cheaper) switch instead.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#135467 - yellowstar - Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:58 pm
Does anybody know of any good, cheap USB wireless adapters?
Also, I have a differn't question.
This question is the same as the one in my WiFi dongle topic.
Is it possible to create drivers for WiFi dongles,
and drivers for USB wireless adapters?
And if so,
would it be possible to create drivers(for WiFi dongles and USB wireless
adapters)
for communicating with a DS, over local wireless?(ni-fi)
In other words,
something like WiFiMe.
I don't have a FlashMe'd DS,
but I am trying to make a DS Download Play client.
(Right now, it dosen't make it past the Authication step.)
(I didn't start making it for WiFiMe.)
#135469 - calcprogrammer1 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:05 pm
I'm pretty sure it depends on the chipset. All the WiFiMe compatible cards used a certain Ralink chipset. Many cards today use Broadcom chipsets (my laptop PCMCIA card does, my friend's new laptop has the same chip built in). If you could get your hands on an old Ralink card (probably on eBay or maybe they still make some) then you could use WiFiMe and probably wouldn't be extremely hard (if you know what you're doing anyways) to modify wifime into something else.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#135501 - Dood77 - Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:52 pm
| yellowstar wrote: |
| Does anybody know of any good, cheap USB wireless adapters? |
I found this one today on buy.com, 10$ after rebate, haven't tried it though:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10381071&adid=17070
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#135509 - yellowstar - Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:39 am
Would this work with Windows 98?
For managment, it says Windows XP,
but on compatibility, it says
Windows 98SE,(which I have, the second edition)
XP, and some others.
Also, it says it has a soft-ap mode,
which I assume does the same thing as
a dongle.
Would this work with a DS,
for WiFi?
It would be wonderful,
if this would work with both of my computers,
and a DS!(WiFi)
If this adapter doesen't work on
both of my computers,(98SE and XP)
I can't use it.
But,
if the above is true,(won't work on 98SE)
and if it works with DS,
for WiFi,
I might get it for that.
#135619 - Dood77 - Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:15 am
I should work for Wifi, and it says compatible with win98SE so I think you should be alright... but like I said, I don't have it so I can't guarantee.
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#135848 - tepples - Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:03 pm
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| The best method I know of for extra ports is 1 "router" (actually a gateway) |
I'm guessing that some of the confusion between "gateways" and "routers" has something to do with makers of home networking hardware not wanting to infringe trademarks owned by Gateway, Inc. (NYSE: GTW), whose online store does sell networking and modem equipment.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#135882 - Tikker - Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:29 pm
I think it's just a matter of fairly complex devices having their descriptions dumbed down to appeal to mass market
It's a lot easier to just label it a router, rather than a "router with integrated switch and wireless access point".
it's getting a bit more common to see them labelled as gateways now (2wire does it)
#135923 - Lynx - Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:13 pm
What's the difference between a gateway and a router.. And provide links to where you got the information.
Because I think it's like saying.. "What's the difference between an automobile and a car".. Because, a car is an automobile.. but a lot of other things are automobiles as well.
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NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#138264 - yellowstar - Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:02 am
I have another question.
I asked this question in my WiFi dongle topic.
| yellowstar wrote: |
Is it possible,
for an DS, via WiFi,
to use a computer's internet,(Dial-Up)
which is on a wireless network,(all the computers
on the network would have wireless USB adapters)
without an router?
|
#138268 - calcprogrammer1 - Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:38 am
If you don't have an access point (whether it be a stand alone AP, router/gateway with integrated AP, software AP [where a computer's network card or adapter acts as an AP, serving the PC's Internet connection]) no. In your situation, a SoftAP would be the best choice (if you don't have a Router), but I have no experience with SoftAP, my network card doesn't support it, and I use Linux on my wireless PC anyways.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#138308 - Tikker - Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
What's the difference between a gateway and a router.. And provide links to where you got the information.
Because I think it's like saying.. "What's the difference between an automobile and a car".. Because, a car is an automobile.. but a lot of other things are automobiles as well. |
gateway has switch ports, router does not
that's essentially the difference, a built in ethernet switch, rather than discreet routed interfaces
#138323 - tepples - Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:19 pm
| Tikker wrote: |
| gateway has switch ports, router does not |
what about dell or hp? what do they have?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#138326 - calcprogrammer1 - Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:29 pm
Well, my HP has an ethernet card, same with my parents' Dell :P
Good thing HP and Dell don't manufacture networking equipment, because they'd probably not be allowed to call it a "gateway" and we'd have more misnamed "routers", though my Netgear gateway says it's a router, even it's web page is www.routerlogin.com, but it has a 4 port Ethernet switch and wireless AP, so it's clearly a gateway.
_________________
DS Firmware 1, Datel Games n' Music card / Chism's FW hacked GBA MP v2 CF
There's no place like 127.0.0.1.
#138341 - tepples - Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:31 am
| calcprogrammer1 wrote: |
| Good thing HP and Dell don't manufacture networking equipment |
Yes, HP does. And both HP and Dell resell home networking gateways on their web sites. (Citations are through Google so as not to break forum rules.)
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#138351 - Tikker - Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:44 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Tikker wrote: | | gateway has switch ports, router does not |
what about dell or hp? what do they have? |
I'm paralyzed with laughter
no, really
#138357 - Dood77 - Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:57 am
This is interesting, I'd never known that what I always referred to as my router was actually a gateway... But I'm still a little confused as to the discrepancy, if it doesn't have switch ports, what does it have?
| Tikker wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Tikker wrote: | | gateway has switch ports, router does not |
what about dell or hp? what do they have? |
I'm paralyzed with laughter
no, really |
I figure this could be swung in either of your ways... You, Tikker, didn't say "A gateway" as it should be stated with a noun meaning a wide range of things with the same name. But in your defense, tepples was assuming a proper noun, which would have to be capitalized.
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#138385 - Lynx - Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:12 pm
| Tikker wrote: |
gateway has switch ports, router does not
that's essentially the difference, a built in ethernet switch, rather than discreet routed interfaces |
Your kidding right? Good thing you posted references to how you came to this conclusion.. Maybe you should update wikipedia with this ounce of wisdom.
How hard is it for each person to google these definitions? The automobile/car reference should have explained it pretty well. How about calling a web server a computer? It's true, a computer _COULD_ be a web server and a web server _COULD_ be a computer. But, neither have to be. A web server doesn't have to be running on a computer, and a computer doesn't have to be a web server. These are services performed. Routing is a service performed.
Tikker, If I load Freesco on a computer, what do I have? A router or a computer?
Don't forget, the devices you have at home can also do/have WiFi APs, Firewalls, http servers, VPN, etc.
Now what are they called? Multi-use network devices?
_________________
NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#138399 - Tikker - Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:44 pm
your analogy isn't all that wrong, all I was doing was clarifying it
all gateways contain routers
all routers are not gateways
your webserver example is ridiculous
#138400 - Tikker - Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:51 pm
quick google "define: gateway" turned up this
http://www.greencomputer.com/solutions/glossary.shtml
| Quote: |
| Gateway ? A gateway is often associated with both a router, which directs the packets of data that arrive at the gateway, and a switch, which furnishes the path in and out of the gateway for a given packet. |
if someone had a 4 port router, you'd have 4 discrete interfaces that would talk to 4 different networks
when most people talk about a home 4 port router, they really have a gateway with 1 WAN port, and 4 LAN ports
it's a router between the 1 WAN and 4 LAN, but the 4 LAN ports are 10/100(sometimes 1000 now) switch ports
#138403 - tepples - Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:28 pm
| Tikker wrote: |
| when most people talk about a home 4 port router, they really have a gateway with 1 WAN port, and 4 LAN ports |
I understand where you're coming from, but if you use the term "gateway" to talk about a router in front of a switch, then consumers below the median tend to think of a Gateway computer acting as the router, possibly running Internet Connection Sharing. (The same people associate MAC addresses with Apple products.)
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#138404 - Tikker - Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:09 pm
I'm wouldn't argue that point. there are few companies that are starting to refer to them as gateways though
#138412 - Dood77 - Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:28 pm
| Lynx wrote: |
| How hard is it for each person to google these definitions? |
Well, I normally like my answers answered by someone who heard my question, and though I'm sure someone has asked the same question and that its been answered somewhere here on the net, it would be easier for someone to explain it to me, rather than going on wikipedia and finding a bunch of new words I didn't know :)
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#138418 - Lynx - Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:46 pm
| Quote: |
all gateways contain routers
all routers are not gateways |
Was that so hard?
| Quote: |
| your webserver example is ridiculous |
No, it's very similar. I'll agree, on the extreme edge of similar, but still.
| Quote: |
| ... answered somewhere here on the net, it would be easier for someone to explain it to me, rather than going on wikipedia and finding a bunch of new words I didn't know :) |
I agree, the problem is when information is generalized to the point of being misleading. And, we didn't even talk about Layer 3 switches.. ;)
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NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#138442 - Tikker - Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:37 am
I didn't think layer3 switching was even worthwhile bringing up in a discussion about home "routers"
but if you want to define layer 3 switch
A network device that forwards traffic based on layer 3 information at very high speeds. Traditionally, routers, which inspect layer 3, were considerably slower than layer 2 switches. In order to increase routing speeds, many "cut-through" techniques were used, which perform an "inspect the first packet at layer 3 and send the rest at layer 2" type of processing.
As more routing lookup functions were moved from software into the ASIC chips, layer 3 switches could inspect each packet just like a router at high speed without using proprietary cut-through methods. If a layer 3 switch supports packet-by-packet inspection and supports routing protocols, it is called a "routing switch" or "switch router," which simply means "fast router." For example, Cisco calls its high-end routers Gigabit Switch Routers (fwiw I spend a lot of time supporting 650x's and 760x's)
More Inspection Takes Time
The more deeply a packet is examined, the more forwarding decisions can be made based upon type of traffic, quality of service (QoS) and so on. To obtain this information requires digging into the packet's headers to ferret out the data, which takes processing time. To understand how packets are formed, see TCP/IP abc's. The following shows what data is examined at each layer. See layer 3, layer 2 switch, Web switch and virtual LAN.
Forwarding
Decision
Layer Based on Examples
2 MAC address Ethernet, Token Ring, etc.
3 Network address IP, IPX, etc.
3 Service quality IP, IPX, etc.
3 Application IPX socket
4 Application IP socket