#55403 - Dudu.exe - Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:55 am
NDS handle play FLASH animation.. and little games..
there is a lot of good flash games to be used witn the stylus..
DS hardware can handle it?
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#55420 - M3d10n - Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:21 pm
90% of the flash content on the net run slow as molasses on a P-III 500Mhz. The Dreamcast flash player was slow, and there are doubts about the feasability of a PSP Flash Player.
Do you think the DS would do any better?
#55422 - Lynx - Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:59 pm
Really? Maybe you need to rebuild your P3 then? I have a P 200Mhz that plays flash fine. And keep in mind, it'd have to be made for 256x192 or 256x384.. Which may require less horsepower due to the smaller resolution. But, I think it would be a lot of work, if possible at all.
#55462 - falcon!!! - Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:45 pm
a nds flash player has been already done, but i dunno if it works
#55487 - cybereality - Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:22 pm
A Flash 7 player for the DS would not be technically possible. I did some research into this (I was concidering porting it) but there is just not enough power. Flash is notoriously slow (even on fast PCs) so even if someone could port it, it would run like crap. Maybe a port of the Flash Lite player (used on cell phones, PDAs) could work.
A more realistic solution would be to create a trimmed down flash player specifically for the DS. The SWF format is an open standard, so it would be possible to create a custom DS SWF player. Some of the flash effects would have to be cut (like alpha channels) to get a decent speed, but I imagine it would be possible.
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#55493 - tssf - Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:39 pm
What if this SWF player simply trimmed the unneeded things out? Like linking, some action scripts that are unneeded, etc. Also, anti-aliasing for some of the lines could be rendered in "medium" mode as opposed to "high quality".. It'd be neat to see the DS do something like the PSP menu in real-time, though I doubt it could ever happen.
At any rate, if there were some set limitations, I'm sure some form of SWF player could be ported? Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
#55530 - cybereality - Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:52 am
| Quote: |
| It'd be neat to see the DS do something like the PSP menu in real-time, though I doubt it could ever happen. |
That is entirely possible to do on DS. Obviously it wont look as good as on the PSP widescreen, but I dont see any reason why there cant be an interface like that on DS. I doubt using any Flash port will get that kinda performance, but if it was a custom app it should be no prob.
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// cybereality
#55537 - M3d10n - Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:49 am
A tailored player, playing tailored content, might not be so slow. But firing up a DS "browser" and navigate smoothly across newsgrounds.com, and playing that cool flash game your friends sent you is a far, far reality.
I think a custom-made player playing specific content would run at around 15 frames per second, depending on the graphical content and actionscript complexity. I'd love to be proved wrong, of course.
That is considering the DS would need render 2D vectors, with gradients and beziers, in pure software (using the hardware would impose hard limits on the complexity of the vectors on the screen), and interpret the action script.
The only usage I can see for such thing, is using the Flash dev environment to create not-so-neat looking GUIs. The Flash dev app is far from being free, mind you, so this would put off some more open-source-bound developers. A custom GUI library could be put together much faster.
In the end, a DS flash player would ONLY benefit those who don't know jack shit, but want to get the fake feeling that they got something of their own running on the console.
#55558 - Onori - Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:18 am
a flash 6 player is possible on gba, I have a demo, it's a little bit slow and has limited action script support.
but it works, with zoom, and scrolling support
#55573 - Lynx - Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:48 pm
| Quote: |
| In the end, a DS flash player would ONLY benefit those who don't know jack shit, but want to get the fake feeling that they got something of their own running on the console. |
Agreed!
#55577 - mike260 - Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:51 pm
| M3d10n wrote: |
| In the end, a DS flash player would ONLY benefit those who don't know jack shit, but want to get the fake feeling that they got something of their own running on the console. |
Making the DS accessible to the zillions of flash guys out there is a bad idea because they don't deserve it? Hmm...
(edit) wrt a cut-down flash implementation, perhaps Flash Lite would fit the bill.
Last edited by mike260 on Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
#55579 - JonathanEx - Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:57 pm
Yes! Just because I can't code means I'm not allowed to try and make my flash movies accessable to more people to watch wherever they want!
#55593 - cybereality - Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:29 pm
| M3d10n wrote: |
| In the end, a DS flash player would ONLY benefit those who don't know jack shit, but want to get the fake feeling that they got something of their own running on the console. |
I think this is quite a bold statement. Much of the professional work I do is in flash, and it is not as simple as some believe. Sure, you can get a ball bouncing in 5 minutes, but to do the cool stuff you have to know your shit. In some ways, Flash can actually be as complex as any C++ code once you get into actionscript 2.0 and OOP using prototypes and the like. Not to mention the kinds of backend/databasing applications you can write using it. To automatically assume all actionscript programmers "dont know jack" just cause there is a lot of crap content is a huge mistake.
Also, not for nothing, but there are a lot more talented artists using flash than in the homebrew scene. Sure you might be the world's greatest uber-hacker, but if you cant draw for shit, how good is your game really going to be?
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#55616 - Diskun - Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:50 am
Actually a spanish dev is making a SWF player for DS. It needs the file to be converted to a optimised format.
Here you are the alpha. You can't use your own flash file, but the only one embedded into the player:
http://www.geocities.com/darlack2005/DarlackSwfPlayer001.nds.gba.zip
http://www.geocities.com/darlack2005/DarlackSwfPlayer001.nds.zip
or go to http://darlack.iespana.es/
See you
#55617 - josath - Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:11 am
| Onori wrote: |
a flash 6 player is possible on gba, I have a demo, it's a little bit slow and has limited action script support.
but it works, with zoom, and scrolling support |
Is this posted anywhere? If not, can you so we can look at it? I'm interested in it.
Thanks.
#55627 - Dudu.exe - Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:30 am
but its a beggining .. it prove it can be done =]
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#55632 - cybereality - Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:49 am
I just took a look at the demo from the links you gave. It actually looks like it works good. The example was very basic, but still ran at full speed and looked fine. Its hard to tell how much of the flash player is actually working or whats supported, but its a great start. Maybe there could be a way to wrap the key listeners to the DS so that you could control the flash content using the DS. If the speed was good, you could even use Flash as a DS dev environment. That would be really cool. I hope that dude makes some progress and releases a converter.
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#55633 - Dudu.exe - Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:01 am
its good to see i am not 'so' crazy at all =]
look darlack?s post on NEOFLASH
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#55659 - Onori - Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:48 am
| josath wrote: |
| Onori wrote: | a flash 6 player is possible on gba, I have a demo, it's a little bit slow and has limited action script support.
but it works, with zoom, and scrolling support |
Is this posted anywhere? If not, can you so we can look at it? I'm interested in it.
Thanks. |
no I can't sorry, this is not an homebrew thing :)
#55683 - El Hobito - Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:35 pm
hmmm for some unknown reason it wont work on the m3 havent tried the m2 yet
#55692 - Dudu.exe - Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:34 pm
works great on my Supercard ( CF )
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#55700 - falcon!!! - Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:46 pm
it blocks saying "buscando SWD" that means looking for SWD...
#55701 - Chetic - Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:00 pm
I used the .nds file to send over wifi and it did not work.
Same as above.
_________________
Packin':
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1Gbit XG2T 2005 (Neoflash compatible)
GBAMP, Supercard CF, 512Mb Magic Key 3 and EZFA 256Mbit
#55703 - Diskun - Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:12 pm
Darlack has made some progress into this. Translated from the original spanish post in the ElOtroLado forums.
- Sound implemented, but the method is still a bit rough. (The injector software extracts the MP3 from the SWF, then they must be converted to PCM Wav using an external program, and finally you concatenate it to the
end of the .gba file)
- Touch panel code done. But ActionScripts implementation is needed for interaction! :P
- Needs some render optimisation, 20 fps with unfilled shapes, about 5 fps with the filling activated.
- The SWF file size limit is about 300-500KB because of the DS RAM, although I'm working on a solution to this.
- I have not much time for this project, but I'll be working on it.
Greets
#55731 - Dudu.exe - Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:08 am
| Diskun wrote: |
Darlack has made some progress into this. Translated from the original spanish post in the ElOtroLado forums.
- Sound implemented, but the method is still a bit rough. (The injector software extracts the MP3 from the SWF, then they must be converted to PCM Wav using an external program, and finally you concatenate it to the
end of the .gba file)
- Touch panel code done. But ActionScripts implementation is needed for interaction! :P
- Needs some render optimisation, 20 fps with unfilled shapes, about 5 fps with the filling activated.
- The SWF file size limit is about 300-500KB because of the DS RAM, although I'm working on a solution to this.
- I have not much time for this project, but I'll be working on it.
Greets |
Good to read!.. if him realease the source.. log of people whould like to help in this project!
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#55741 - tssf - Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:02 am
It'd be nice if say, people can make DS-compliant Flash animations with very limited action script that would play through the DS hardware, instead of trying to reneder everything in software, and then maybe output it to an executable NDS file. I mean, imagine all those wonderful sprite-based flash movies running on the DS hardware through it's internal sprite core and such rather than having flash do all the work.
#55744 - falcon!!! - Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:53 pm
guys! can u tell me how u got it to work?? I use the nds file with gbamp via flashme. ANd it blocks saying "buscando swf"
And i didnt get whether i gotta put a swf file in the same directory of the nds or not..Anyway it freezes.
#55747 - Chetic - Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:30 pm
OK, I tested with the .ds.gba version and it works fine.
The .nds file simply doesn't work.
_________________
Packin':
Grey DS with FlashMe v7
1Gbit XG2T 2005 (Neoflash compatible)
GBAMP, Supercard CF, 512Mb Magic Key 3 and EZFA 256Mbit
#55754 - El Hobito - Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:33 pm
| falcon!!! wrote: |
guys! can u tell me how u got it to work?? I use the nds file with gbamp via flashme. ANd it blocks saying "buscando swf"
And i didnt get whether i gotta put a swf file in the same directory of the nds or not..Anyway it freezes. |
the swf file is probably appended to the rom via gbfs and hence wont work with the gbampv2
#55781 - Lynx - Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:59 am
What? That doesn't make any sense.. gbamp can do gbfs as long as it's not making direct address calls to the GBA slot.
Now, as Chetic stated, can you put the .nds in darkains multi-rom loader and it work?
#55782 - tepples - Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:02 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| gbamp can do gbfs as long as it's not making direct address calls to the GBA slot. |
True, but it's hard to construct a .nds file where the startup code doesn't overwrite the GBFS file with 0 bytes when setting up the .bss section. You have to convert the GBFS file to a .s or .o file so that it goes into the .rodata section, and you can't modify the GBFS file once it's in the .nds file unless you make a huge empty GBFS file and use someone's GBFS inserter.
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#55800 - El Hobito - Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:51 am
| Lynx wrote: |
What? That doesn't make any sense.. gbamp can do gbfs as long as it's not making direct address calls to the GBA slot.
Now, as Chetic stated, can you put the .nds in darkains multi-rom loader and it work? |
well put it this way i've never seen gbfs work on the gbamp even if it is possible
#55866 - Lynx - Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:50 pm
[quote="El Hobito]well put it this way i've never seen gbfs work on the gbamp even if it is possible[/quote]
Well, I've never seen HyperDS, though people say it's real..