#55495 - cybereality - Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:49 pm
I was at Nintendo World event last weekend for the Miyamoto signing. There were at least 2 thousand people out there on line to meet Miyamoto. Pretty much everyone there had DS's so there was a lot of multiplayer action going on. This was the first time I actually got to use Picochat or a multiplayer game, so it was a good time. The thing was, the DS had a real hard time picking up signals. Repeatedly in PicoChat we would get randomly disconnected and the status bars were at either 0 or 1 bar (out of 4). Also, trying to play mario64 multiplayer took about 3 tries (turning the system of and on) even though the 4 of us were standing right next to each other in a circle! Later in the day the Nintendogs competition with Miyamoto got cancelled (and held up the line) because they couldn't get the wifi signal working. Apparently all the DS's in the area clogged the signal so that it couldn't get a clean connection. Joystiq.com had the following to report:
| Quote: |
| Eventually, though, they had to give up on the idea of transferring one of these puppies to everyone who got a signature. Attempts to transfer the puppy with the Mario hat were foiled, perhaps by the noise of several dozen DSs all in the same vicinity. For a moment, Nintendo staff toyed with the idea of asking everyone in the vicinity to turn off their DSs, but this idea went nowhere. How silly would it be if they had to shut off every DS in the Nintendo store in order to get the transfer function working? This will probably be addressed in a future patch to the operating system for the device. |
Even though it is just conjecture, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo released an update to fix this. It seemed like it was quite an embarrasment for them and I am surprised they didn't ever run any tests like this previous to this event.
_________________
// cybereality
#55509 - Lynx - Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:56 pm
Well, I can't see them wasting money on hardware that is updatable if they have no intentions of ever releasing an update. But, to hear that to many DSs in a single location causes them not to be able to connect.. in short.. is pretty crappy. I guess.. NiFi should maybe go back to the drawing board.
#55517 - El Hobito - Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:38 am
i dont think its nintendos fault they wouldnt all work the amount of interference would be insurmountable wifi just isnt very good at handling interference bluetooth would handle it better with its frequency hopping ability but it doesnt use that so i doubt a firmware update would solve it.
#55523 - tepples - Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:10 am
But then watch each firmware update introduce even stricter anti-PassMe measures, eventually necessitating a disassembly of some game's DS Download Play code in order to create ItsaMe.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#55528 - TheChuckster - Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:40 am
Somehow we're going to have to dump the firmware update and manually remove the anti-Pass Me stuff beforehand and THEN flash it onto our DSes.
#55529 - cybereality - Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:50 am
Just because Nintendo might update the firmware, doesn't mean they will block any homebrew hardware. Nintendo has rarely been as strick as, say, Sony, so I am not really worried. I am more worried that the DS doesn't have as good of wifi strength as other portables. This was a rare test case (hundreds of DS within range of each other), but still surprising.
_________________
// cybereality
#55531 - tepples - Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:22 am
| cybereality wrote: |
| Just because Nintendo might update the firmware, doesn't mean they will block any homebrew hardware. |
Two words: Red DS.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#55534 - Dudu.exe - Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:43 am
I gess any wireless system whould going crazy in conditions like this one..
no one on Sony will make so much PSPs appears in the same place...
the question is.. DS can handle well 16 tramissions in same area, becouse thats why it was designed for
_________________
http://flickr.com/photos/stuffbox
#55536 - Lynx - Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:22 am
| tepples wrote: |
| cybereality wrote: | | Just because Nintendo might update the firmware, doesn't mean they will block any homebrew hardware. |
Two words: Red DS. |
Keep in mind what market the iQue DS and Red DS are made for. Japan and China.. so for them to put out stricker firmware for just that market actually makes sense to me. I don't have any problem with it. If you have a known piracy market, why not "fight" that market a little harder. But, if they were on the anti-homebrew warpath, EVERY DS being manufactured right now would have that firmware. From what I see/hear, that isn't happening. If they already have it, why not use it on ALL DSs? Nintendo IS the one making this hardware. They aren't poor. If they wanted to, I'm sure they could have made it a LOT harder for us to be where we are right now.
#55540 - tepples - Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:43 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Keep in mind what market the iQue DS and Red DS are made for. Japan and China |
China I can see, but is Japan more of a hotbed of piracy than say North America or Europe?
| Quote: |
| But, if they were on the anti-homebrew warpath, EVERY DS being manufactured right now would have that firmware. |
Perhaps all newly manufactured units do come with the red DS firmware, but Nintendo and retailers have so many units with the old firmware in stock that it might take a few months before newly manufactured units end up in end users' hands. Likewise on the other side: for several months after the release of 1.51, you could still find the occasional PSP with 1.50.
But recalling all DS inventory from dealers might make them poor.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#55559 - TheChuckster - Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:57 am
This just in:
| Quote: |
In a bold, daring and unprecedented move, Nintendo now publicly supports homebrew execution with its new Magenta DS firmware. In addition to limiting wireless interference, Nintendo has added a bit to their ROM header that toggles the RSA encryption. This will prove to be very beneficial to homebrewers who now no longer need clever devices such as PassMe to execute their code on the DS. With this new firmware, NDS flash cartridges are quite possible.
Nintendo has not said a word regarding this new feature yet, nor is there any information as to whether the SDK will be released or not. |
*continues dreaming*
#55560 - NoMis - Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:19 pm
This would be awesome but somhow I doubt that the big N will make such a move.
What source is this information from?
NoMis
_________________
www.gamedev.at - The austrian gamedev site
hde.gamedev.at - The Handheld Dev Env plugins for Eclipse
#55562 - El Hobito - Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:52 pm
put it this way, theres no way the psp would have handled it either
#55572 - Lynx - Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:45 pm
| tepples wrote: |
China I can see, but is Japan more of a hotbed of piracy than say North America or Europe? |
Well, I don't know the laws in Japan, but piracy is illegal in the U.S.
| Quote: |
Perhaps all newly manufactured units do come with the red DS firmware, but Nintendo and retailers have so many units with the old firmware in stock that it might take a few months before newly manufactured units end up in end users' hands. Likewise on the other side: for several months after the release of 1.51, you could still find the occasional PSP with 1.50. |
I guess I can't say for sure, but being that I do work in a manufacturing environment, I doubt that is the case. When you manufacture a product, you don't want to store a few million dollars worth of it in warehouses. You manufacture to demand (or forcasting, which is almost always wrong). When demand overcomes your production rate, you end up with a shortage (just like they had for the last 2 months of last year). But, you still follow numbers. Each month is forcasted, and product is manufactured to follow that forcast. If you have a design in place (aka, iQue and Red) you know about it far enough in advance to not end up with 5,000,000 units waiting to be sold before your new version becomes available. That is why people have to search for an old model of something. I'm not saying the mom and pop shop down the bock won't have a DS with the original firmware 5 years from now, because they don't have the sales to require another order (which would come with new firmware) but I'd be willing to bet that if there is new firmwared DSs released in the U.S., you'd hear about it in less then a month. And then, there would be a rush to get the old firmwared version (even for people that don't do homebrew, because people just follow what they read, not understanding it won't really effect them) and that would cause most stores to have the new version.
#55608 - Quirky - Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:49 pm
I'll be interested to see if the new coloured DSes released October 7 in Europe includes the new anti-homebrew firmware or not. If so, it's a clear stand by Nintendo. If not, then it backs up the fact that Nintendo perhaps worry more about the chinese sharing stuff with their friends than folk in Europe. We shall see....
#55609 - humbleish - Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:32 pm
At E3 it was near impossible to download the DS demos from Nintendo's kiosk. Even when there were available 'spots' (transfers were limited to about 6 at a time per demo), the connection would almost always die before the transfer could initiate, or often, it would drop midway through a transfer. There probably weren't any more than 20 people surrounding the kiosk at a time, but there were tons of people in the 2-3 hour Zelda line with their DSs out. I hope this doesn't end up being a problem at DS 'hot spots' if they're as successful as Nintendo hopes they will be.
#55672 - TheChuckster - Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:01 pm
NoMis, you thought I got that from a news source? I thought the Magenta DS made it obvious I made it up.
#55676 - tepples - Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:51 pm
Well, Sony did sell a black PlayStation together with its limited edition "Net Yar?ze" package for homebrewers.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#55681 - Mr. Picklesworth - Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:05 pm
I imagine that they could, with their superior knowledge of how the system works, release a firmware update with future games.
Pretty bad that they didn't notice that problem when they were developing the thing...
Although, does anyone else want to set up a wireless system that can handle unlimited ammounts of interference all on the same frequency?
_________________
Thanks!
MKDS Friend Code: 511165-679586
MP:H Friend Code: 2105 2377 6896
#55690 - M3d10n - Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:24 pm
It only depends on how much Nintendo is interested in getting the firmware's WiFi functions work at such extreme situations.
Since the wifii implementation on actual games may vary from game to game, games coded for internet play might handle more stress, due to the new Nintendo WiFi SDK or something.
#55702 - Lynx - Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:12 pm
It could also depend on the amount of control they give developers. If they are stuck with channel 6 for wifi, then it would be a problem. But, if each game designer can choose what channels they talk on, it probably won't be so bad.