#60112 - tdk - Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:30 am
I'm quite new to portable gaming. I got a DS + warioware and advance wars and I bought the metroid demo off ebay.
I was quite dissapointed with the demo because sometimes lines went right across the screen while jumping.
So, I went on a search for information on these lines. I tried google but that just came up with a lot of junk...
So, I searched for some DS forums. I found the information here that these lines were probably interlace lines. In my searches though I found a post by someone saying that they could be removed by adjusting some things under the battery cover.
I adjusted those and magically the lines dissappeared.
Recently I bought kirby and castlevania. But with kirby I'm seeing some different
lines. They only appear across the object though, not across the whole screen.
For example, there is an electric whip that moves in a circle. Small lines go across it as it moves.
The lines aren't in any videos I've seen.
So, are these lines interlace lines instead of the other ones? Or are they both interlace lines?
I would ask this at the forum where I found that post but I don't know what forum it is... Sorry :(.
#60159 - M3d10n - Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:03 pm
Since you've already messed with the system internals, it's hard to say if those lines you're seeing in Kirby should be there or not.
In any Nintendo handheld, you're likely to notice a subtle interlacing effect when things blink or during vertical scrolling. That's because the LCD scanlines are actually blinking in an alternate pattern.
It's a trick to reduce the ghosting effect on LCD screens, and I believe it's patented to Nintendo (the PSP, as example, has a much more noticeable ghosting).
Now, denepding on the contrast of your screen, the image being displayed and the movement, the interlacing effect can become noticeable or not. You noticed the lines in Metroid during vertical movement, what is normal, but I never actually noticed them until I got Castlevania and Megaman X4. those are the only two games where I can notice the lines at some moments, but it never gets offensive.
#60171 - tepples - Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:15 pm
| M3d10n wrote: |
| In any Nintendo handheld, you're likely to notice a subtle interlacing effect when things blink or during vertical scrolling. That's because the LCD scanlines are actually blinking in an alternate pattern. |
Specifically, it draws odd lines slightly too dark and even lines slightly too light and then alternates per frame.
| Quote: |
| It's a trick to reduce the ghosting effect on LCD screens, and I believe it's patented to Nintendo (the PSP, as example, has a much more noticeable ghosting). |
Is it really Nintendo's patent? My 1999 laptop's LCD had a similar effect, although it alternated per pixel (in a checkerboard pattern) instead of per scanline.
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#60176 - M3d10n - Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:32 pm
I just guessed it's patended, because I quite haven't seen it implemented in the exact same way elsewhere (your display did it in a checkerboard pattern, that can be enough to dodge a patent, along with an average lawyer backup). I might be wrong.
#60305 - tdk - Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:04 pm
Thanks for the replies people.
So what exactly does adjusting those things under the cover do?
#60308 - tssf - Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:53 pm
Well, on the Game Boy Color, I think it changed the refresh rate of the screen? Or perhaps something to do with those scanlines you were talking about.. I'm not sure, don't take my word for it. I can't remember exactly what it did, I'm sure others know, though.
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#60314 - tdk - Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:44 am
Thanks for replying.
Are there different people on IRC? I think I might ask there and see what they say.
#60315 - tdk - Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:03 am
Right, I just found out that the original gba also has this control. It actually controls the flicker, not the interlace lines.
http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/095/095982p1.html
Back in the early days of the GBA the users thought that it was a contrast adjustor.
IGN reported that a badly adjust one could reduce the life of the LCD:
"A positive and negative voltage controls Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs). The "contrast control" that you are referring to is actually a flicker control. The adjustment is used to synchronize the positive and negative voltages. If these voltages are out of adjustment then the LCD will no longer respond correctly. The result will be an excess charge built up in the liquid crystal and permanently damage the LCD. The excessive charge gives the appearance of a brighter screen because the liquid crystal is not reacting properly to the voltages applied. When the adjustment of the voltages is correct the changing polarities will not allow a charge to build up, which prolongs the LCD life.
This adjustment is set by the manufacturer or must be performed by a qualified Nintendo Technician using proper equipment (Proper lighting, special tools, test equipment and software). Adjusting the flicker without the proper tools and lighting will put the voltages out of sync and may cause damage to the unit."
So, my question is, is a flicker free display a properly adjusted one?
#60330 - josath - Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:47 am
| Quote: |
| This adjustment is set by the manufacturer or must be performed by a qualified Nintendo Technician using proper equipment (Proper lighting, special tools, test equipment and software). Adjusting the flicker without the proper tools and lighting will put the voltages out of sync and may cause damage to the unit." |
i think that means dont mess with it. there will always be a small amount of flicker in certain things. i notice it especially in darkain's multinds loader - the background alternates light/dark lines, which really shows off the flicker.
#60341 - cory1492 - Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:46 am
Just of note, I ran across someone who had a problem with interlace lines on another forum while playing Mario64, Nintendo RMA'd it and his replacement does not have the same problem. If you have warranty I suggest a replacement (although that will likely land you a new firmwared one)
#60346 - tssf - Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:11 pm
New Firmware rarely matters now since Natrium42's PassMe2 is being sold on dspassme.com ...that one supports the new firmware.
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#60347 - cory1492 - Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:16 pm
True, but not everyone has the capability of upgrading their current passme if they already have one.
#62346 - Xtreme - Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:55 pm
Ok, I used those dials and managed to get rid of the annoying interference. I used Mario Kart for testing.
Those dials are for adjusting the flickering (stated by Nintendo). Of course they will affect your screen contrast (screen comes grey if "wrong" setting is set), but not for the LEDs brightness, bummer.
"A positive and negative voltage controls Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs). The "contrast control" is actually a flicker control. The adjustment is used to synchronize the positive and negative voltages."
EDIT:
Now I can see big interlace like lines in fast moving dark objects (like in the thunderbolt (black efect) in Mario Kart when your character magically squeezes to a little mini-me). Anyone seeing any similar like this with unmodified DS/modified DS? Or is that the way N gets the ghost efect away?.. I can't remember seeing this before I did change flicker settings.
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#62510 - Barnard - Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:37 pm
Can someone post some links regarding the technology Nintendo and other companies use to stop ghosting on LCD screens, it all sounds very interesting a worth a read.
Thanks in advance.
#62523 - Xtreme - Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:46 pm
I made a video from Mario Kart today with my Canon. I used 60fps framerate, but it was not needed, so I re-encoded it to 25fps.
It is very hard to show the flicker/interlacing in video. I did my best. I hope you understand what is happening there.
Interlacing on objects. NOT on the backround!
There is interlacing when an object is flickering fast. Loot at closely at the video.
Download here: nds_blinking_interlaced_yoshi_xvid.avi
Size: 1.2MB (video: XviD - 25fps)
Hosted on my own fast server.
Please do not use that URL anywhere. Instead you can link to this thread.
You can use/download/upload this video anywhere. I don't mind at all.
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