#60640 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:05 am
Just wondering if somebody happens to have built an app that does movie playback for DS which does not have file sizes 3x larger than the original file which was much larger and does not take forever to compress?
:D
I kind of expected that people would be clamouring to do a nice movie player for DS in order to silence that stupid PSP vs DS rivalry. (It's really annoying, since I, and many other people, actually *gasp* -"BURN HIM"- like both the DS and PSP... I also find end-user rivalries by consumers over consumer products to be really stupid, anyway.).
Uhm... yah.
Movie playback, anyone?
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#60650 - IxthusTiger - Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:33 am
/me glares at you
#60667 - El Hobito - Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:11 pm
the more you compress a video the more processing power it requires to decompress it and hence the lower the framerate so its really your choice what you prefer. the ds movie player has fairly good compression but its framerate is meh.
#60671 - JaJa - Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:00 pm
Look on mught maxes website and you'll find DSmpeg.
Finish it and it might be half decent.
#60677 - tepples - Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:33 pm
Try Play-Yan Micro. It plays MPEG-4 in a 240x160 window.
The PSP, for comparison, can play MPEG-4 stored on the Memory Stick only in a 240x136 pixel window that's upscaled to 480x272 on playback.
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#60679 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:41 pm
Thanks :)
I'll take a look at that source code... I may, by some miracle, manage to employ my very limited knowledge in C++ to do something there.
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#60680 - Mighty Max - Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:50 pm
The source is very dirty, if you need help understanding what i did, mail me. It might take a while for me to answer, but i gonna do my best.
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#60756 - Darkflame - Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:10 pm
| tepples wrote: |
Try Play-Yan Micro. It plays MPEG-4 in a 240x160 window.
|
..but dosnt take real advantage of the DS hardware.
The DS is powerfull enough to decompress a large number of codecs in real time includeing Mpeg's.
That dosnt mean its easy though ;)
(sound on the secondary chip...)
#60788 - tepples - Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:22 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| The DS is powerfull enough to decompress a large number of codecs in real time includeing Mpeg's. |
The PSP can play MPEG-4 video without voiding the warranty. So can a GBA family product with Play-Yan Micro. DS homebrew, on the other hand...
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#60792 - El Hobito - Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:04 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Darkflame wrote: | | The DS is powerfull enough to decompress a large number of codecs in real time includeing Mpeg's. |
The PSP can play MPEG-4 video without voiding the warranty. So can a GBA family product with Play-Yan Micro. DS homebrew, on the other hand... |
how are they gonna know if you've used passme though?
#60796 - tepples - Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:45 pm
Potentially more important than the warranty issue is the price issue. If you don't care about running programs developed by amateurs, most of which have been described by critics as either bullsh-- Tetris clones or emulators that run ROMs of questionable legality, here's the cost breakdown: - Nintendo DS + PassMe2 + exploitable game (it turns out that Meteos (U), the game I bought with my old DS, is not exploitable) + SuperCard (GBAMP does not have SRAM, which PassMe2 requires) = $240
- PSP = $250
- GBA SP + Play-Yan Micro = $160
- Portable DVD player = $130
And now that economies of scale are pushing supply of Memory Stick PRO Duo cards far to the right, which in turn tends to push the price down toward the price of CF and SD, you can't argue cheaper media either.
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#60805 - NoComply - Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:36 pm
You could just get a portable dvd player but you couldn't play awesome ds games on it!
#60857 - Darkflame - Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:35 pm
Portable DVD player will always be far better then either for movies, duh.
Especialy because you dont need to buy UMD format crap either ;)
As for legality, well, thankfully, there is fully legal downloadable movies and tv shows on their way :)
LOST on Itunes? for instance. $1.90 each I am happy to pay. (and no, you dont need to view it on an ipod video).
But isnt this a thread about the DS's potential as a movie playing device?
It can do much,much better then the play-yen and GBAMP...after all, they are GBA devices, not DS devices.
| Quote: |
Nintendo DS + PassMe2 + exploitable game (it turns out that Meteos (U), the game I bought with my old DS, is not exploitable) + SuperCard (GBAMP does not have SRAM, which PassMe2 requires) = $240
|
why do you need this set up?
What makes just a normal GBAMP+PassMe not able to do movies :?
Why do you need PassMe2 at all?
| Quote: |
| And now that economies of scale are pushing supply of Memory Stick PRO Duo cards far to the right, which in turn tends to push the price down toward the price of CF and SD, you can't argue cheaper media either. |
Which stores are Memory sticks cheaper then Compact Flash?
I am curious, because Id like a 2Gig MS for my camera, but everywhere I look CF is still the cheaper of the two. (well, three...or, four...)
| Quote: |
| If you don't care about running programs developed by amateurs, most of which have been described by critics as either bullsh-- |
Which critics?
#60888 - tssf - Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:39 pm
You could buy an original DS. Every store I've gone to in my area still have the original November 2004-released Nintendo DS's with the Metroid demo and all. Granted, not a lot, but they're still there.
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#60912 - tepples - Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:15 am
| NoComply wrote: |
| You could just get a portable dvd player but you couldn't play awesome ds games on it! |
Some people prefer Ridge Racer for PSP over Ridge Racer for DS, citing better graphics. Some people prefer Me and My Katamari (tentative title) over Super Monkey Ball. Some people even prefer Lumines over Meteos.
Brought to you by Ridley's Believe It or Nuts!
| Darkflame wrote: |
| What makes just a normal GBAMP+PassMe not able to do movies :? |
Not everybody lives where First Hunt bundles are still available new in box. There already are reports of silver DS units coming with new firmware, and by the time the homebrew community gets some sort of decent movie player working, this will become even more common. Worse yet, unlike on the PSP (where revision A was sure to have 1.50 FW), it's impossible to distinguish an old firmware silver or electric blue DS from a new firmware silver or electric blue DS without opening the box and trying PassMe.
And I didn't say that Memory Stick is cheaper, but that the price gap is closing.
And what do you gain by switching from Play-Yan to some DS native solution? A measly 16 pixels?
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#60923 - Kujo - Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:58 am
'a measly 16 pixels' and more processing power to throw at better, more advanced, codecs?
#61050 - Darkflame - Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:17 am
16 pixals...eh? slightly more then that me thinks.
But yes,much more processing power and Ram is the main things. This can (obviously) improve movie abilitys a lot.
Touchscreen controlls would also be nice, but not essiential.
But also to be able to use the DS as an all in one package.
Moonshell does an excelent job of MP3's and Jpegs, and theres now a nice text writeing program for the DS. All usefull apps.
Id just like a nice quality movie player to go with that.
The homebrew is comeing along very nicely imo, emulators are a little lagging. (allthough theres lovely stuff for the GBA...master system/gg, nes, and gameboy colour all have superb GBAMP emus now).
But the potential for the future of DS homebrew is very bright.
Dispite the new firmware in some DS's, its nothing we cant get around. And its also no where near as annoying as "upgradeing/downgradeing" PSP firmware is.
First Hunt Bundels? Who needs them. I never got one, and it worked fine for me. The Homebrew community will adapt to new firmware..it wont stand still.
And I am sure that solutions will be made for the GBAMP...or, at least, cheaper solutions then Flashcarts.
Nintendo, for the moment, dont show signs of having auto-firmwhere updates with games.
And untill they do, homebrew on the DS is a win-win situation for users.
| Quote: |
NoComply wrote:
You could just get a portable dvd player but you couldn't play awesome ds games on it!
Some people prefer Ridge Racer for PSP over Ridge Racer for DS, citing better graphics. Some people prefer Me and My Katamari (tentative title) over Super Monkey Ball. Some people even prefer Lumines over Meteos.
|
Yes, but the PSP isnt a particularly good movie player either.
Compared to "proper" portable dvd players, or even HD media players, its lacking.
These are games machines,thats what they are primarly good at.
Its just some of us want to use our hardware for more :)
The resolution limit off memory cards is purely sonys invention, you can hack around it. They just wanted to drive sales of their stupidly overpriced UMDs up.
Just like PSP homebrewers want to get the most from their system, so DS owners want to get the most from theirs.
And the DS can do much better then the GBA-format PlayYen.
#61070 - tepples - Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:17 am
| Kujo wrote: |
| 'a measly 16 pixels' and more processing power to throw at better, more advanced, codecs? |
With Play-Yan, the processing power is in an ASIC that sits on the same Option Pak that holds the SD card reader.
| Darkflame wrote: |
| 16 pixals...eh? slightly more then that me thinks. |
Start with a 640x360 pixel widescreen movie, shrink it to the target screen size, and encode it using a supported codec: - PSP: MPEG-4 simple at 240x136
- GBA with Play-Yan: MPEG-4 simple at 240x136
- Nintendo DS with homebrew: some other codec (possibly MPEG-1) at 256x144
256-240=16
| Quote: |
| And [installing FlashMe is] also no where near as annoying as "upgradeing/downgradeing" PSP firmware is. |
Thing is, 1. you have to buy extra stuff to downgrade a new DS, which (together with the DS itself) costs almost as much as a PSP, and 2. the PSP supports MPEG-4 without downgrading.
| Quote: |
| And the DS can do much better then the GBA-format PlayYen. |
Unless you get an MPEG-4 AVC decoder running on an ARM9 CPU at less than 40 cycles per pixel (enough to decode full-screen 30fps video), I don't see how it's that much more powerful than Play-Yan.
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#61075 - joshschw - Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:25 am
| tepples wrote: |
Start with a 640x360 pixel widescreen movie, shrink it to the target screen size, and encode it using a supported codec: - PSP: MPEG-4 simple at 240x136
- GBA with Play-Yan: MPEG-4 simple at 240x136
- Nintendo DS with homebrew: some other codec (possibly MPEG-1) at 256x144
256-240=16 |
but come on - are you really going to watch a widescreen video on a 2 inch screen? do it 240x160 and 256x192. it makes quite a difference. ;p
#61080 - tepples - Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:11 am
| joshschw wrote: |
| but come on - are you really going to watch a widescreen video on a 2 inch screen? |
And cut entire characters out of a shot? Besides, where else are you going to put the subtitles?
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#61140 - Darkflame - Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:10 pm
| Quote: |
Nintendo DS with homebrew: some other codec (possibly MPEG-1) at 256x144
256-240=16
|
Rather 1-dimensional thinking going on here :p
(in more ways then one)
You seem to be struggling to turn this into a PSP vs DS debate, which this isnt.
Its simple "Can a better video system be done on the DS", and the answere is yes.
Your takeing very specific examples to try to make the PSP come out the same cost wise....when that isnt an issue at all.
If your buying the DS system TO play movies, then you are stupid indeed.
Wheras, if you have a DS and just want an extra features, I dont see how your argument is at all relivent.
And Mpegs arnt the only movie format, you know.
I dont know the specifics of the PlayYen chips (how much ram does it have? ect).
But I do know the DS can do better then gba-resolution,15-20fps movies that the playyen produces.
I mean, official developers are casualy produceing FMV's on both screens at once mearly as intros.
Hunters intro didnt look less then 20fps to me.
Obviously they are short, but thats a space issue, and CF cards are cheap and getting cheaper all the time. 8Gigabytes has already been confirmed to work, so I dont see space being much of an issue.
So why do you think the DS cant do better then the PlayYen *on a single screen* ? when its already doing better on both screens at once :?
I dont think official developers have access to a secret "magic chip" :D
(I appriciate access times from DS games are probably quite quicker then CF, but thats a streaming issue not a processing one like your implying.)
| Quote: |
2. the PSP supports MPEG-4 without downgrading.
|
..at a limited resolution.
If you want the most from your PSP, movie playing wise, you want homebrew ;)
#61152 - tepples - Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:07 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | Mr. Pickesworth wrote: | | I kind of expected that people would be clamouring to do a nice movie player for DS in order to silence that stupid PSP vs DS rivalry. |
The PSP, for comparison, can play MPEG-4 stored on the Memory Stick only in a 240x136 pixel window |
You seem to be struggling to turn this into a PSP vs DS debate |
Mr. Picklesworth was the first to mention the PSP, framing the discussion in the context of the PSP vs DS debate.
| Quote: |
| Its simple "Can a better video system be done on the DS", and the answere is yes. |
For one thing, define "better" in terms of objective measures. For another thing, demonstrate that "better" is possible.
| Quote: |
| And Mpegs arnt the only movie format, you know. |
MPEG 1-4 video, Motion JPEG, and Ogg Theora are to my knowledge the only publicly documented transform video codecs.
| Quote: |
| But I do know the DS can do better then gba-resolution,15-20fps movies that the playyen produces. |
15-20fps? Got a source on that? This source claims 30fps.
| Quote: |
| I mean, official developers are casualy produceing FMV's on both screens at once mearly as intros. |
Using how much cart space? Remember that even NAND flash memory costs a lot of money compared to DVD-RW or DVD+RW media.
| Quote: |
Hunters intro didnt look less then 20fps to me.
Obviously they are short, but thats a space issue, and CF cards are cheap and getting cheaper all the time. 8Gigabytes has already been confirmed to work |
If you have 8 GB, you can just store a sequence of uncompressed 256-color bitmap files, at 1.5 MB per second for 30fps. But at that price, what does that prove?
| Quote: |
| So why do you think the DS cant do better then the PlayYen *on a single screen* ? when its already doing better on both screens at once :? |
For a given amount of visual distortion (that is, video quality), there's a tradeoff between decoder complexity and data rate, and Play-Yan sits at a sweet spot in that tradeoff.
| Quote: |
| I dont think official developers have access to a secret "magic chip" :D |
Yes they do; it's an MPEG decoder ASIC soldered onto the Play-Yan's circuit board. A SuperCard SD doesn't have that chip.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | 2. the PSP supports MPEG-4 without downgrading. |
..at a limited resolution. |
...which is almost the same width as the DS's screen.
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#61252 - El Hobito - Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:57 pm
i love the way you do that tepples pick someones argument apart line by line. I dont see why people are getting so agro about videos, it'll take some time for someone to get a good enough codec for the ds its not something that'll magically appear. in any case the moonshell vid player is pretty decent but the files are too huge. The m3's vid player has a dissappointing frame rate but has excellent compression (an episode of family guy is 78 megs). Hopefully this'll improve since its only the first release.
#61260 - Laintsurge - Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:51 pm
| El Hobito wrote: |
| i love the way you do that tepples pick someones argument apart line by line. I dont see why people are getting so agro about videos, it'll take some time for someone to get a good enough codec for the ds its not something that'll magically appear. in any case the moonshell vid player is pretty decent but the files are too huge. The m3's vid player has a dissappointing frame rate but has excellent compression (an episode of family guy is 78 megs). Hopefully this'll improve since its only the first release. |
Which release are you talking about. The 1.20 release that finally does it fullscreen.
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#61276 - El Hobito - Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:59 pm
| Laintsurge wrote: |
| El Hobito wrote: | | i love the way you do that tepples pick someones argument apart line by line. I dont see why people are getting so agro about videos, it'll take some time for someone to get a good enough codec for the ds its not something that'll magically appear. in any case the moonshell vid player is pretty decent but the files are too huge. The m3's vid player has a dissappointing frame rate but has excellent compression (an episode of family guy is 78 megs). Hopefully this'll improve since its only the first release. |
Which release are you talking about. The 1.20 release that finally does it fullscreen. |
the latest movie player is great for animation great quality and great size. frame rates not so important for cartoons so i think its great.
#61293 - tepples - Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:44 pm
| El Hobito wrote: |
| i love the way you do that tepples pick someones argument apart line by line. |
So-called "middle-posting" is a very common technique in e-mail and Usenet. It doesn't imply any sort of aggression, just a way to keep reply text close to what it's a reply to. Besides, in spoken, IM, or IRC conversation, people often do tend to alternate by line.
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#61300 - Darkflame - Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:07 pm
Yes, Although I often thought you could go one better then a forum for discussions/arguments and have a full schematic system of points and counter-points :D
You could use it like a semantic database. Point A depends apon point B and C being true, ect.
| Quote: |
Mr. Picklesworth was the first to mention the PSP, framing the discussion in the context of the PSP vs DS debate. |
Sorry, my mistake.
I just get irritated with those sort of arguments.
| Quote: |
Quote:
I mean, official developers are casually producing FMV's on both screens at once mearly as intros.
Using how much cart space? Remember that even NAND flash memory costs a lot of money compared to DVD-RW or DVD+RW media.
|
Its clearly using some compresion of some sort, you can see artifacts. We dont know how much space it takes up, but the resulting quality is pretty darn good, and its compressed in some form.
Even ignoreing the two screens being used, thats more then we have at the moment!
And whats DVDs got to do with it :?
I already said a portable DVD player would be the best solution for those that can afford it or dont want a DS, but thats obvious.
| Quote: |
For one thing, define "better" in terms of objective measures. For another thing, demonstrate that "better" is possible. |
Full screen.
Metroid Intro.
(thought I said these already :-/)
| Quote: |
| If you have 8 GB, you can just store a sequence of uncompressed 256-color bitmap files, at 1.5 MB per second for 30fps. But at that price, what does that prove? |
Your starting to treat me like an idiot here, and its kinda annoying.
Of course you could do that, and of course it wouldnt be worth it.
But your takeing things to extreams.
My point was mearly space is fairly cheap, and getting cheaper all the time. We dont need highly compressed stuff that the DS can barely handel, we only need to work to the sort of compression that the DS can handel.
Why take it too extreams?
Work the argument backwards, if you admit the DS can handel uncompressed bitmaps, then ask yourself what sort of compression could it handel at a decent speed?
You dont surely thing it could handel no compression do you?
| Quote: |
For a given amount of visual distortion (that is, video quality), there's a tradeoff between decoder complexity and data rate, and Play-Yan sits at a sweet spot in that tradeoff
|
For a GBA ,yes.
Not for a DS
| Quote: |
...which is almost the same width as the DS's screen |
~sigh~
In the context of what I was saying, I mearly meant that both PSP owners and DS owners want to get the most from their system.
I was being pro-homebrew for both systems and trying to avoid a PSP/DS debate.
| Quote: |
| I dont see why people are getting so agro about videos, it'll take some time for someone to get a good enough codec for the ds its not something that'll magically appear. |
Of course it wont, as I said earlier, it would be hard work, and will probably involve the use of both chips and trying to get sound/video in sycn which can always be a problem.
I am mearly argueing against the (imo) bizare view that the play-yen is the best possible video on the DS and its pointless trying to make anything better.
| Quote: |
| in any case the moonshell vid player is pretty decent but the files are too huge. |
I also get an awfull lot of noise when i use it :-/
Its the only homebrew movie thing at the moment though, so cant complain ;)
| Quote: |
MPEG 1-4 video, Motion JPEG, and Ogg Theora are to my knowledge the only publicly documented transform video codecs.
|
Well, I have never looked, so you may well be right.
But whos to say you need to use an existing codec at all?
Standards are nicer, of course, but not a nesscessity.
Movies have to be re-compressed due to the screen size anyway really, so, like the GBAMP has its *.gbm format, maybe a simerlar type thing could be made for the DS.
#61310 - tepples - Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:02 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| Quote: | "I mean, official developers are casually producing FMV's on both screens at once mearly as intros."
Using how much cart space? |
Its clearly using some compresion of some sort, you can see artifacts. We dont know how much space it takes up |
If you can rip the .nds file, you can unpack it and see how big the video is.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | For one thing, define "better" in terms of objective measures. |
Full screen. |
What bitrate and what frame rate?
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | If you have 8 GB, you can just store a sequence of uncompressed 256-color bitmap files |
Your starting to treat me like an idiot here, and its kinda annoying. |
Didn't intend to. I was just being thorough. Setting a lower and upper bound is important in any discussion. In this case, the upper bound is 8 bits per pixel (uncompressed bitmaps) and the lower bound is 0.14 bits per pixel (estimated data rate of Majesco's GBA Video codec).
| Quote: |
| My point was mearly space is fairly cheap |
How cheap? Given the price of a 1 GB card, how many hours of video would you want to put on it?
| Quote: |
| if you admit the DS can handel uncompressed bitmaps, then ask yourself what sort of compression could it handel at a decent speed? |
Distortion is a function of two variables: data rate (in bits per frame) and decoder complexity (in cycles per pixel). Maximum possible decoder complexity is a function of frame rate and image size. Given an image size of 256x192 pixels, which data rate and frame rate did you have in mind so that we can set lower and upper bounds on what is possible?
| Quote: |
Well, I have never looked, so you may well be right.
But whos to say you need to use an existing codec at all? |
Codecs that have come into wide use were likely designed by people who know more about video coding than 98 percent of the people who read this board.
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#61318 - Thomas - Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:18 pm
Good video compression on the Nintendo DS is certainly possible. Actimagine has got a good codec, according to this news item:
| Quote: |
Actimagine has announced that Nintendo of Japan has licensed its video codecs to integrate video sequences in video games for the Game Boy Advance and the Nintendo DS handheld video game systems.
It will be provided at no charge in Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS Software Development Kits. The codecs will allow all Nintendo's game developers to implement video content in their games.
On the Nintendo DS, Actimagine software video codec can achieve full screen 256x192 video up to 30 frames per second from 100kbps to 700kbps, with stereo sound from 8KHz mono to 48KHz stereo. Dual screen can be supported up to 15 frames per second.
Metroid Prime Hunters: First Hunt and Jump Super Stars are the first two games using the video capabilities.
In 2004, Actimagine had previously licensed to Nintendo Co., Ltd. its video compression technologies allowing Nintendo to deliver up to 90 minutes of TV-like video titles on 32MB cartridges on its range of hand-held consoles: Game Boy Advance, Game Boy Advance SP and Nintendo DS. This is a purely software-based solution, making the video cartridges compatible with the installed base of Nintendo hand-held consoles. Actimagine will exhibit at the CES 2006 in Las Vegas, USA, from January 5th to 8th, Sands Convention Center booth 70608. |
#61334 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:59 am
| Quote: |
| Mr. Picklesworth was the first to mention the PSP, framing the discussion in the context of the PSP vs DS debate. |
My post has obviously been misread. If more was read outside of the abbreviation "PSP," that person would have noticed more information to go along with it.
This is not a DS vs. PSP debate, this is a thread about the possibilities of running MPEG video on a DS in order to view a TV series which I happen to now have converted to rather nicely compressed MPEG files, on a computer which has no sound at the moment and is not connected to the network, and I can't be bothered to connect it to transfer the files to the decent PC.
(I have it on DVD as well, before you ask).
Now, I will make a quick attempt to rescue this thread.
This is my thread by the way, if you don't like what its topic is, please start your own thread, rather than destroying mine.
First, I will explain why it is not a stupid idea to write an MPEG viewer for NDS:
Unlike some people who claim to own every bit of electronic gadgetry ever built, there are people who actually do not own a Play-Yan or a PSP, but do own a DS. If you understand basic logic, you should be able to figure out that the purchase of a Play-Yan or a PSP in order to fix this problem would cost them money on top of the money they spent on their DS.
It's pretty darn simple, actually.
Now... On with why I returned to this thread which really should have been over a while ago.
Mighty Max: I have taken a peek at your code, and I think I may as well play around with it for a while. I just need to know around where it is that you stopped, so I can pick up from there.
What works/doesn't work/needs fixing?
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#61354 - tepples - Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:03 am
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
| My post has obviously been misread. |
I apologize.
| Quote: |
| there are people who actually do not own a Play-Yan or a PSP, but do own a DS. If you understand basic logic, you should be able to figure out that the purchase of a Play-Yan or a PSP in order to fix this problem would cost them money on top of the money they spent on their DS. |
If you own a DS, and even if you happen to have bought an exploitable game (for example, not the US version of Meteos) with your DS, and you weren't involved in the GBA homebrew scene, then you still need to buy a PassMe2, a SuperCard (which, unlike the GBAMP, works with the PassMe2), and a CF or SD card in order to run homebrew. How much does that cost compared to the price of a Play-Yan (which also works in a DS) and an SD card?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#61509 - Darkflame - Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:17 am
Your assumeing the person dosnt already have a DS perfectly able to use PassMe(1), for starters here.
I think quite a few people...probably the majority...actualy are in the position of haveing to spend ...zero...to get DS a hypothetical DS movie player running. *because they already have everything*
And if your talking to the future, then maybe their will be other GBAMP like devices that do have the nesscery stuff for PassMe2 to work.
Or maybe someone will come up with another PassMe like device.
ect.
ect.
Two completely seperate issues, and its an extream and bizare stretch to say something is pointless because you have weighed up the costs in a very precise way looking at one thing to see what comes out on top.
| Quote: |
| which I happen to now have converted to rather nicely compressed MPEG files, |
But surely you would have to resize the footage anyway?
While I firmly believe decent movie playback is possible, general rescaleing while maintaining framerate probably isnt.
And, if re-sizeing using Vdub or whatever is acceptable, then why not a complete custom format?
Something the DS can handel (and people can code for).
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If you can rip the .nds file, you can unpack it and see how big the video is.
|
Unfortunately not.
I am curious however.
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| What bitrate and what frame rate? |
I cant say the bitrate really. Depends on too many things.
But framerate Id be looking at whatever that Metroid vid was doing.
Looked about 20fps.
But well, as I keep saying.
Give me that video, on one screen, with some sort of compression.
Thats not that much to ask, Imo.
But lets get to maybe the heart of your viewpoint on my viewpoint:
| Quote: |
| How cheap? Given the price of a 1 GB card, how many hours of video would you want to put on it? |
Hours?
45mins maybe ;)
Allthough Id like the option to watch a movie at some point, frankly, I dont think I would do that often if at all.
Id me just watching stuff when traveling.
It would be either tv shows, one at a time, or maybe 2/3 if its animated.
I dont see any point at all in having a "collection" of videos on a portable.
I watch stuff once and then I am done with it.
I might want to be clips of my 3D work (talking minutes here), but thats about the only thing Id want to do perminately.
Of course, other people might want to watch LOTR's on the DS, but Id leave it to them to buy huge CF cards. (or more then one and split it...)
I easily fit a few eppisodes of Futurama, say, on my GBAMP+512MB Compact Flash. I have in the past (when clearing everything else off), managed to fit two whole eppisodes of Farscape on it.
For the DS, with its better abilitys, I dont see why expecting full screen for a more or less simerlar space taken up is unreasonable at all.
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Codecs that have come into wide use were likely designed by people who know more about video coding than 98 percent of the people who read this board. |
Dosnt stop my GBAMP from playing its own movie format though does it?
You cant have it both ways.
Yes, they will be better in terms of compression then people here can invent. Absolutely. That would be first choice.
However *IF* you keep saying the DS cant handel them, THEN I wouldnt mind a custom format. Like the GBAMP's one, maybe.
You see I dont care.
I just want the end result, which I know is possible because my GBAMP does it minus a few pixals and a few frames, and thats purely using GBA processing!
I know DS developers are using various forms of compression too. And I see the animation on that Metroid demo. (two both screens as well, I just want one)
So one way or another, its possible.
| Quote: |
| On the Nintendo DS, Actimagine software video codec can achieve full screen 256x192 video up to 30 frames per second from 100kbps to 700kbps, with stereo sound from 8KHz mono to 48KHz stereo |
Dosnt seem to bad to me that.
#61515 - tepples - Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:25 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| And if your talking to the future, then maybe their will be other GBAMP like devices that do have the nesscery stuff for PassMe2 to work. |
I mentioned the SuperCard, which is a GBAMP-like device (CF adapter) with the extra RAM that PassMe2 needs. The M3, from the maker of the GBAMP, is similar.
| Quote: |
| Two completely seperate issues, and its an extream and bizare stretch to say something is pointless because you have weighed up the costs in a very precise way looking at one thing to see what comes out on top. |
Everything in life, and I mean everything, is a cost-benefit analysis. If and only if the benefit outweighs the cost of programmer time, then somebody is going to port a video decoder to the Nintendo DS.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | What bitrate and what frame rate? |
I cant say the bitrate really. Depends on too many things.
But framerate Id be looking at whatever that Metroid vid was doing.
Looked about 20fps. |
I seem to remember that the video in First Hunt was 30fps, with frames alternating on the top and bottom screens. This correlates with Actimagine's announcement.
| Quote: |
But lets get to maybe the heart of your viewpoint on my viewpoint:
| Quote: | | How cheap? Given the price of a 1 GB card, how many hours of video would you want to put on it? |
Hours?
45mins maybe ;) |
Thank you. From this I can compute bitrate. It looks like you're aiming for something in the same range as VCD, which would put 115 minutes of video on 1 GB. This would be 1200 kbps, with perhaps about 1000 kbps used for video. At 256x192x30, that would end up at 0.65 bit/pixel, which looks like a much easier target than Majesco's data rate.
| Quote: |
| Of course, other people might want to watch LOTR's on the DS, but Id leave it to them to buy huge CF cards. (or more then one and split it...) |
With LOTR or Titanic or GWTW you'd be able to get away with 256x144 (16:9).
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Codecs that have come into wide use were likely designed by people who know more about video coding than 98 percent of the people who read this board. |
Dosnt stop my GBAMP from playing its own movie format though does it? |
The people who developed the .gbm codec probably know a lot more about video compression than I do.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | On the Nintendo DS, Actimagine software video codec can achieve full screen 256x192 video up to 30 frames per second from 100kbps to 700kbps, with stereo sound from 8KHz mono to 48KHz stereo |
Dosnt seem to bad to me that. |
But unfortunately, that's for professional game developers only, not for turn-your-DS-into-a-handheld-video-player apps :(
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#61665 - Darkflame - Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:23 pm
No,no, dont missunderstand me, but I am mearly argueing about whats possible, I am not saying "Someone make this NOW" ;)
Hence me refering to official development stuff.
Btw, there does seem to be some movie-playing stuff dotted about;
http://nintendo-ds.dcemu.co.uk/movietest.shtml
(is that the same as the one that comes with Moonshell? The compression artifacts look simerla)
Cant make out much though when running the site though google translator.
| Quote: |
The people who developed the .gbm codec probably know a lot more about video compression than I do.
|
Probably...but I wouldnt put them that much ahead of this community.
Its effectively commercial homebrew.
You can tell its only a few people running the "company".
#61813 - El Hobito - Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:57 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
No,no, dont missunderstand me, but I am mearly argueing about whats possible, I am not saying "Someone make this NOW" ;)
Hence me refering to official development stuff.
Btw, there does seem to be some movie-playing stuff dotted about;
http://nintendo-ds.dcemu.co.uk/movietest.shtml
(is that the same as the one that comes with Moonshell? The compression artifacts look simerla)
Cant make out much though when running the site though google translator.
| Quote: |
The people who developed the .gbm codec probably know a lot more about video compression than I do.
|
Probably...but I wouldnt put them that much ahead of this community.
Its effectively commercial homebrew.
You can tell its only a few people running the "company". |
eeek thats the very first alpha of moonlights dmv player.
#61889 - Darkflame - Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:20 pm
Thats explains it then.
Thought it looked the similar
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/Laintsurge/Sigs/Sig8.jpg){kind=link}