#65999 - blackd0t - Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:12 pm
Hi!
I've been recently trying to find a decent video codec for my DS to watch my music clips. I tried dpgtest for DS and Meteo for GBA, but they just make the console lock up when I try to launch them.
Do you know of any good free homebrew codecs I can use?
#66010 - Durandle - Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:33 pm
Hmm... Moonshell (with DPG support) seems the best option right now. There are a few MPEG4 players, but they're all closed source and commercial, which sucks.
#66012 - blackd0t - Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:53 pm
Yeah, I really like that Caiman Video Codec, but it's not even for sale :/
Thanks for the advice, I'll try that.
_________________
Regards,
Black Dot
#66029 - tepples - Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:55 pm
| Durandle wrote: |
| There are a few MPEG4 players, but they're all closed source and commercial, which sucks. |
And they will be until the last MPEG-4 patent has run out.
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#66034 - Durandle - Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Why is that? I don't quite see what you mean... ffmpeg is open source, mplayer is open source... xvid is. They can all deal with MPEG4. Thus, porting an MPEG4 lib to DS maybe harder than mpeg1 but not impossible, and with its lower datarate may even work better.
#66037 - tepples - Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:45 pm
| Durandle wrote: |
| ffmpeg is open source, mplayer is open source... xvid is. They can all deal with MPEG4. |
And all are illegal to use in the United States and in other developed countries that recognize software patents until close to the year 2020, which is long after the Nintendo DS will no longer be manufactured.
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#66038 - Durandle - Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:56 pm
So you saying that VideoLanClient, one the most well used opensource video players, who list IBM and AT&T as partners, are in fact creating illegal software?
I think, maybe, thats not quite right. I don't understand the laws all that well, but I know that writing an MPEG4 decoder is not against the law in any country. Maybe selling it without having the legal requirements yes, but not free and opensource.
#66041 - El Hobito - Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:42 pm
i dont beleive it cost anything to decode mpeg4 but it does infringe when you write a codec that encodes using them iirc. at least thats why the divx codec is free but you have to pay to make divx (same with winamp pro for example and mp3s).
#66047 - IxthusTiger - Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:55 pm
| blackd0t wrote: |
Yeah, I really like that Caiman Video Codec, but it's not even for sale :/
Thanks for the advice, I'll try that. |
I'm pretty sure its for sale... I think Majesco bought their codec for the GBA videos!
They fit Shrek 2 on one cart O_O
Also they fit Shrek + Shark Tale on one cart!!!
But I suspect bank switching on that one... I'm tempted to buy them and find out how small they compressed those movies...
#66069 - tepples - Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:35 am
| Durandle wrote: |
| So you saying that VideoLanClient, one the most well used opensource video players, who list IBM and AT&T as partners, are in fact creating illegal software? |
Apparently they're creating it for use in countries that do not recognize software patents.
| Quote: |
| I know that writing an MPEG4 decoder is not against the law in any country. Maybe selling it without having the legal requirements yes, but not free and opensource. |
The law defining patent infringement in the United States and other parties to the major patent treaties doesn't have a blanket exemption for non-commercial use or distribution.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#66074 - Durandle - Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:50 am
The method of decoding MPEG4 is not a problem - its only a problem if you use existing code that the patent covers. As far as I know, things like VLC were created from the ground up with original code. Although I don't really know enough to back anything up - I'd say that if all the companies mentioned on their Partners page are involved with the project then there is legality here... do you think IBM would be involved with a project thats illegal? AT&T? I doubt it.
Anyway, this actually has nothing at all to do with what was mentioned. Creating an MPEG4 decoder in a similar way to Moonshell DPG files shouldn't actually be very hard. The core decoder libs should compile almost right away for ARM with small changes. I wish I was better at coding, I'd do it my self... best I did was get it 75% there but in the end the more complex parts that needed tweaking defeated me.
#66076 - tepples - Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:59 am
| Durandle wrote: |
| its only a problem if you use existing code that the patent covers. |
You claim that patent encumbrance propagates only by copying. This is true of copyrights but not of patents. A patent on an invention prohibits the use of that invention by third parties even if the other party independently invents the same invention.
| Quote: |
| Anyway, this actually has nothing at all to do with what was mentioned. Creating an MPEG4 decoder in a similar way to Moonshell DPG files shouldn't actually be very hard. |
Last time someone tried to compile an MPEG-4 decoder from source code on a Nintendo handheld platform, it got literally two frames per second.
| Quote: |
| The core decoder libs should compile almost right away for ARM with small changes. |
A 300 MHz ARM in a Pocket PC handheld != a 67 MHz ARM in a Nintendo DS.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#66091 - M3d10n - Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:36 am
I was just googlig for it, and seems the MPEG LA group just made MPEG 4 as proprietary as WMV.
Contrary to popular belief, MPEG-4 is far from open. If more than 50 thousand people download your decoder, you need to pay $0.25 per download. Oh, and there is a vague $0.02 fee per hour of content/software usage, that is so absurd there aren't proper ways to charge for it.
Maybe someone should try writing a VP3 decoder. That's fully open-source.
#66106 - tepples - Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:27 am
| M3d10n wrote: |
| Maybe someone should try writing a VP3 decoder. That's fully open-source. |
Or try to port Ogg Theora, which is the continuation of VP3.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#66149 - A2hok - Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:12 pm
Is there any open source codec with higher but better compression than MPEG-4?
Maybe if someone was amazing at coding they could create a codec created on the same idea as MPEG.
_________________
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#66244 - tepples - Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:37 am
| A2hok wrote: |
| Is there any open source codec with higher but better compression than MPEG-4? |
In terms of rate/distortion curve (neglecting computational complexity), H.264 (also called MPEG-4 Part 10 or AVC) is currently the best standardized codec, and the best open source codec is Theora.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#66273 - blackd0t - Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:04 pm
Ok, I've had problems with compressing the mpeg2 to dpg when the mpeg was converted from an avi using the WinAvi Video Converter (dump this app!), but finally everything worked as planned when I used TMPGEnc to convert my avi into mpeg2 format.
_________________
Regards,
Black Dot
#66321 - A2hok - Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:56 pm
Is anybody who has got the know-how going to try and code theora onto the DS using the same idea as moonshell (not ExFS)
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