#70322 - A2hok - Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:41 pm
I have seen a demo for an swf player on the DS. It got me thinking - what if you could play SWF games on your DS and set the controls using a good interface. Some flash games are not big and do not require that much memory. I believe that the DS is fully compatible of this task. I tried having ago at programing but I am completely useless so I was wondering if any of you amazing DS programmers could maybe program a app to do this, it would be a break through and would increase the dimensions of the hombrew world to a whole new level.
P.S Which flash game would you play on the DS
Myn's got to be Madness interactive!
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#70325 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:34 pm
Since flash games are excessively bloated... things... which have the same graphics and gameplay as a game from 1980, and the same memory and system consumption as a game from 2008, I highly doubt that such a thing would operate with any degree of smoothness.
(Most unfortunately)
It would be cool, though!
Madness Interactive has trouble running on lots of computers, so we'd probably have to put up with about 6FPS on an interactive video.
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#70328 - Xgame - Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:46 pm
maybe is off-topic, but i possible to port java into ds(only for phone game, for example)?
#70338 - Puppet - Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:17 pm
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
| Since flash games are excessively bloated piles of garbage which have the same graphics and gameplay as a game from 1980,... |
There's a game over here that would like to disagree.
The rest of what you said is true, though. It takes a good machine to get it to run at good speeds, even with its simplistic graphics.
#70340 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:31 pm
Ah yes, that is a nicely done game.
Sorry about that little troll. I'm blaming it on the green colour at steampowered.com.
(And modifying the above post)
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#70348 - Pinesal - Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:46 pm
Where can I get more information on this flash player?
#70355 - kevinc - Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:26 pm
I wrote a flash player demo a while ago, just in case anybody is interested. I have an almost finished version (no actionscript), but I got too lazy to finish porting it :P.
#70375 - DayDream - Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:17 am
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
| Since flash games are excessively bloated... things... which have the same graphics and gameplay as a game from 1980, and the same memory and system consumption as a game from 2008, I highly doubt that such a thing would operate with any degree of smoothness. |
Have to disagree as well... and point to our game "Heliattack3" www.miniclip.com/heliattack3.htm
The main problem is the lack of real bitmap video support in flash players below version 8. Too much action on the screen will kill the flash players speed quickly.
Unless you are looking for an easy way to code games for the DS and don't want to use too much action it might work...
#70385 - GragonSon - Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:35 am
I just wonder if this game here can possibly port to DS? It's the best flash game I ever played. I think it would be nice if we have it for DS.
WARNING: This game is for people over 18 years old ONLY. PLEASE DON"T TRY IF YOU UNDER AGE.
#70414 - cybereality - Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:57 am
GragonSon, have you played TickleGirl? (check the download section)
I wasn't really able to get too far in the game you linked, but I like the idea. TickleGirl was originally a flash game I ripped and remade for the ds, so yes, it is entirely possible. A direct port is not really possible at this point and I doubt any ds flash player would have the speed to do anything other than a powerpoint presentation. Judging by the popularity of h-games like that on newgrounds I would expect a ds h-game would be pretty popular. Maybe I'll make one myself if I ever finish the bazillion other projects I'm working on...
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#70421 - uzumakishade - Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:47 am
id really like to see these 2 games http://fallingsandgame.com/sand/
http://fallingsandgame.com/sand/sand.html on it, they would make good use of the touch screen
#70422 - tssf - Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:07 am
Okay, off the topic of adult-oriented content, and back on topic of Flash in general.
Kevenc: your demo is awesome. If you could somehow get it to show at a smoother frame rate, and perhaps have sound, that would be awesome. Since flash uses MP3 audio streams mostly anyway, can't you just use libmad like MoonLight did for MoonShell?
It'd be awesome if say, this code could be adapted for moonshell so that, if say, someone played an SWF file in MoonShell, it would actually playback the flash animation. Action script isn't too important, but things like basic action script should be implemented, if only so people can navigate the Flash menus. :) Are you still working on this project? I for one would LOVE to see this completed. It's too bad you couldn't somehow get antialiased, or at least mid-quality-styled vector-based drawing working at a decent framerate. Ah well. It's still a really cool demo.
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#70437 - Darkflame - Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:00 pm
It would be amazeingly cool to run non-interactive flash movies.
Theres lots of cool flash animations out there.
#70441 - SeanMon - Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:53 pm
I would love Madness and n-game (<- would be tough because it has a large pixel-size and it displays the entire level all the time).
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#70447 - GragonSon - Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:07 pm
| cybereality wrote: |
GragonSon, have you played TickleGirl? (check the download section)
I wasn't really able to get too far in the game you linked, but I like the idea. TickleGirl was originally a flash game I ripped and remade for the ds, so yes, it is entirely possible. A direct port is not really possible at this point and I doubt any ds flash player would have the speed to do anything other than a powerpoint presentation. Judging by the popularity of h-games like that on newgrounds I would expect a ds h-game would be pretty popular. Maybe I'll make one myself if I ever finish the bazillion other projects I'm working on... |
Yes, I have played your game, and I liked it very much. That's where i get the idea porting this h-game to DS. I'm not a programmer therefore all i can do is asking people who good at programming like you guys to help porting this game. I think it's a very good for DS, if you do program it, could you please spost it on your website. Thank you first.
BTW, did you say Powerpoint presentation? A Powerpoint presentation would be awsome, then i could put all me college lecture into my DS. It's a pain in a butt to print them out. A pewerpoint for DS is really really really awsome
#70492 - tepples - Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:02 pm
I made a flashcard program for the GBA that should be pretty easy to adapt into a simple slide show program.
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#70549 - GragonSon - Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:58 am
so you mean that powerpoint slide show would be possible? if so please please could you make it. i really need one..
#70550 - tepples - Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:02 am
Two questions: - By when?
- Is exporting each slide to a .bmp acceptable, or does it have to read .ppt directly?
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#70588 - GragonSon - Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:11 pm
it would be nice if it in .ppt format directly. About the "when" question, I'm not going to rush you, just do it at your free time. I'm asking you a big favor..you know...not demanding ^ _ ^
Thank you very much tepples!
#70652 - HyperHacker - Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:34 am
Regarding flash: Some simple actionscript is absolutely necessary, as every movie I've ever watched has interactive play/scene select/credits/etc buttons.
#70696 - Darkflame - Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:40 am
True.
But then, normaly right clicking and going "forward" works too. (on title screens)
Which is do-able without action script.
#70753 - kevinc - Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:41 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| Regarding flash: Some simple actionscript is absolutely necessary, as every movie I've ever watched has interactive play/scene select/credits/etc buttons. |
The problem being, the actionscript library isn't exactly small. And it is enough that one or two functions aren't implemented for it to get stuck at the loader (heck, I've seen loaders using sin and cos inside a class!). And, of course, ignoring the fact that the flash spec *loves* floats, and we all know how much the DS likes them. Heck, Flash 4 only uses strings that should be transformed to floats! I think full actionscript was definitely meant for higher end machines.
| Quote: |
| It's too bad you couldn't somehow get antialiased, or at least mid-quality-styled vector-based drawing working at a decent framerate |
Antialiasing for flash is a pain in the ass. Think about this:
When you draw a white circle over a black background, you can AA the borders without problem. Now cut the circle in half. When both parts are drawn, you'd expect it to look exactly as when you drew the whole circle. But when you draw the first half, the inner border gets AA'd, and when the second half is drawn, the second inner border gets AA'd over the first one. Meaning that you get an ugly darker line in the middle of the circle where the cut was. Almost all paths are like that in Flash. Though it does give you ways to solve that (each edge contains info about what color is at each side), but I never managed to do it fast enough. Or maybe it's just that I suck.
Oh, and about the decent framerate: the demo wasn't optimized for the DS at all :); I still hadn't got my Supercard. It might run faster after a few tweaks (I've managed 15 fps with Calico Electronico!)
#70800 - Empyrean - Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:07 pm
GragonSon wrote:
| Quote: |
| BTW, did you say Powerpoint presentation? A Powerpoint presentation would be awsome, then i could put all me college lecture into my DS. It's a pain in a butt to print them out. A pewerpoint for DS is really really really awsome |
You ever try to print it out as handouts as opposed to each slide by slide? It's in the Print options. My accounting course also uses PPTs, and so I print it out as handouts (I go for 6 slides per page) and the *really* important slides (usually one or two financial statement examples) I print the slide on a dedicated page.
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#70815 - tssf - Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:13 pm
| kevinc wrote: |
| HyperHacker wrote: | | Regarding flash: Some simple actionscript is absolutely necessary, as every movie I've ever watched has interactive play/scene select/credits/etc buttons. |
The problem being, the actionscript library isn't exactly small. And it is enough that one or two functions aren't implemented for it to get stuck at the loader (heck, I've seen loaders using sin and cos inside a class!). And, of course, ignoring the fact that the flash spec *loves* floats, and we all know how much the DS likes them. Heck, Flash 4 only uses strings that should be transformed to floats! I think full actionscript was definitely meant for higher end machines.
| Quote: | | It's too bad you couldn't somehow get antialiased, or at least mid-quality-styled vector-based drawing working at a decent framerate |
Antialiasing for flash is a pain in the ass. Think about this:
When you draw a white circle over a black background, you can AA the borders without problem. Now cut the circle in half. When both parts are drawn, you'd expect it to look exactly as when you drew the whole circle. But when you draw the first half, the inner border gets AA'd, and when the second half is drawn, the second inner border gets AA'd over the first one. Meaning that you get an ugly darker line in the middle of the circle where the cut was. Almost all paths are like that in Flash. Though it does give you ways to solve that (each edge contains info about what color is at each side), but I never managed to do it fast enough. Or maybe it's just that I suck.
Oh, and about the decent framerate: the demo wasn't optimized for the DS at all :); I still hadn't got my Supercard. It might run faster after a few tweaks (I've managed 15 fps with Calico Electronico!) |
It's good to see that it's something you're interested in doing. Even if actionscript is impossible, an SWF player on the DS would still rock hardcore. Reading from the CF would be also an awesome idea. But anyway, yeah. People keep talkng about Power Point. tepples, perhaps it's time the topic got split?
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#70856 - Darkflame - Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:12 am
| Empyrean wrote: |
GragonSon wrote:
| Quote: | | BTW, did you say Powerpoint presentation? A Powerpoint presentation would be awsome, then i could put all me college lecture into my DS. It's a pain in a butt to print them out. A pewerpoint for DS is really really really awsome |
You ever try to print it out as handouts as opposed to each slide by slide? It's in the Print options. My accounting course also uses PPTs, and so I print it out as handouts (I go for 6 slides per page) and the *really* important slides (usually one or two financial statement examples) I print the slide on a dedicated page. |
Regarding DS power point presentations...wouldnt it be neat if you help it sideways, it displayed two pages, then you closed the lid and re-opened to turn the page :D
#70876 - chishm - Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:24 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| Regarding DS power point presentations...wouldnt it be neat if you help it sideways, it displayed two pages, then you closed the lid and re-opened to turn the page :D |
If you've openned and closed your DS as much as me, you'll come to realise that the hinge weakens over time. This is a nice idea, but it will eventually kill your DS.
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#71033 - tepples - Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:26 am
I can't easily split if single comments talk about both topics.
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#71169 - A2hok - Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:17 pm
I love ngame but that slows down my computer - I don't think the ds can handle it. It would be a load of help if somebody could make a nds actionscript library (it doesn't have to include much although the bigger the better). By the way getting flash animations on your ds is not hard:
1. Download a SWF to AVI converter
2. Encode AVI to DPG
3. Watch on moonshell
The only problem is that some animations have menu/loading screens. DOH!
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#71204 - natrium42 - Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:51 pm
Made a quick port of GPLflash a while back. Finished it today, though.
http://www.natrium42.com/blog/?p=36
NDS with sample movie: http://www.natrium42.com/downloads/sbemail58.swf.nds
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#71212 - tepples - Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:43 am
What do you call a nonvolatile memory device that holds an SWF player set to run an arithmetic drill-and-practice movie?
select [ A Flash flashcard flash card. ]
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#71228 - tssf - Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:26 am
Not bad.. If you could select between qualities with the select button, that would probably improve performance on the animation a bit..
I can see where the library doesn't..handle the layering very well. Ah well, It was quick so what should one expect :)
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#71229 - Mrshlee - Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:06 am
I was really quite impressed with it..
Setting quality would improve smoothness of animation.
Im sure the sound would be possible if it could dump it into a pre-encoded stream..
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#71249 - Darkflame - Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:07 pm
Cool :)
*wonders if he can get decline of video gameing to work on it*
| tepples wrote: |
What do you call a nonvolatile memory device that holds an SWF player set to run an arithmetic drill-and-practice movie?
select [ A Flash flashcard flash card. ] |
And if a superhero owned one? ( [ The Flash's Flash flashcard flash card. ])
You dont read the new scientist do you? they had a whole load of those things a few weeks ago.
#71262 - A2hok - Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:30 pm
Thanks for this natrium42. It would be a nice idea to incoporate a actionscript library. By the way can you create a loader so it loads the SWF files alot like moonshell - with a file browser. It would be great to be able to choose your file without have to recompile everytime.
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#71300 - Darkflame - Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:24 pm
| A2hok wrote: |
| Thanks for this natrium42. It would be a nice idea to incoporate a actionscript library. By the way can you create a loader so it loads the SWF files alot like moonshell - with a file browser. It would be great to be able to choose your file without have to recompile everytime. |
Ditto that one :)
Be good for batch testing.
Also, wouldn't it let you use larger files?
I think as far as action script goes the real needing thing is just pushing a button.
So it needs to understand:
"on (release) {
gotoAndPlay("Lazer",1);
}" and simerla things like it.
That's a fair step to take, but I don't think we need the whole action script working, just commands to do with starting/stopping and moving from scene to scene.
#71329 - HyperHacker - Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:31 pm
I mentioned that before, but apparently a lot of flash uses all sorts of actionscript in even the most basic menus. Though I wonder how well they would work if all the unsupported functions were just noops.
| Darkflame wrote: |
Cool :)
*wonders if he can get decline of video gameing to work on it* |
I was thinking of Rise Of The Mushroom Kingdom myself.
#71337 - natrium42 - Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:55 pm
GPLflash1 is quite limited, it contains features up to Flash 4. Here what the README says:
| Quote: |
FEATURES
--------
Limitations :
- The plugin and the player use XShm extensions, so remote display is not possible.
- Not all features in Flash < 4 implemented (but no crash on Flash 4 files).
Not functional :
- No Morphing.
- No vertical anti-aliasing.
SOUND SUPPORT
-------------
Limitations :
- No sound envelop. So no fading or balancing effect.
But the main feature is here and sound can be enjoyed. |
So no ActionScript available, though buttons work in SWFs I tried (like Xiao Xiao 5). Another problem is severe memory limitation. For example, Xiao Xiao 3 would run out of memory and not play.
Other open source flash projects are Gnash and GameSWF (Gnash is based on that) -- both use SDL and some OpenGL, so they would be harder to port.
I haven't tested it, but movies could run smother if they weren't full screen on the DS. Also, it seems the less shapes are used, the smoother the play. For example, Trogdor runs pretty smooth because of relatively few shapes. Xiao xiao 5, on the other hand, is quite slow. It uses more shapes even though it looks simpler (visually) than Trogdor. Badger SWF slows down when there are many badgers on the screen.
So, overall, GPLflash could be used for really simple movies on the DS...
Maybe for game intros, etc.
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#71352 - Darkflame - Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:55 am
Well, it runs fairly smoothly already actualy..its just limited in what it supports.
(I think I spotted fadeing dosnt work either).
The way forward with memory can only be reading directly from the flash medium. Possible (as proved by a few emulators that work fine), but its another layer of complexcity.
| Quote: |
I was thinking of Rise Of The Mushroom Kingdom myself. |
That too ;)