#71908 - ghazi - Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:17 am
http://ds.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=3341
| Quote: |
| Confirming our original report, the Opera Web browser add-on has been confirmed for DS. In addition to this, the browser will not be firmware. |
This was mentioned among other interesting announcements, I guess.
I think I'd rather have a well-maintained homebrew browser anyway, so it's not really a race!
#71910 - Xtreme - Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:25 am
Opera
"Opera is partnering with Nintendo to put its browser on the Nintendo DS! Dual screens and a touch keypad make browsing from this device a breeze. Nintendo DS gamers can now enjoy the full Internet in between taking care of their Nintendogs..." Read more
The browser comes with RAM Expansions pack (SLOT-2).
Source: Computer And Video Games
Picture: Opera DS in DS lite
Video clip: Left click (after waiting.. close the add with X to see download link)
Price: 32$ acording to Joystiq.
News on:
21.02.2006 the Inquirer: URL
15.02.2006 DS-x2: URL
15.02.2006 Press Releases: URL
15.02.2006 Joystiq: URL
15.02.2006 Modojo: URL
15.02.2006 Nintendo (announcement): URL
15.02.2006 Opera Software (press release): URL
Thanks swimgod for the link.
"The Opera browser for Nintendo DS will be sold as a DS card. Users simply insert the card into the Wi- Fi enabled Nintendo DS, connect to a network, and begin browsing on two screens." Whoa!
"Based on the same core as the Opera desktop browser, Opera delivers superior speed and rendering of Web pages on the Nintendo DS." Cool!
I wonder when they will make english version of it. That statement says it's for Japanese ppl.
EDITs: New link added.
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#71914 - swimgod - Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:50 am
http://opera.com/pressreleases/en/2006/02/15/
thats what opera has to say about it :)
looks really good for the ds let me tell you right now :D
also notice the tv tuner on that page,
personal i never even thought of that posiblity
glad someone is working on it :)
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#71939 - Xtreme - Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:19 pm
Release month confirmed
Acording to the Finnish news site Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has confirmed that the Opera browser will be released in June 2006.
Source: Digitoday
I wonder what the price for the card will be.. maybe 30$ ?
EDIT: Acording to Joystiq, it's 32$. Wow, I was lucky. :)
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#71940 - Roc - Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:44 pm
Wow, this is pretty big news, no? As long as they don't mess it up by putting silly restrictions in place, this could be a winner. I'd certainly buy one.
#71943 - dualscreenman - Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:07 pm
If it's not release in English, I will personally bludgeon Miyamato with an NES!
... No.... I can't bear to do that. Oh well, I know most of you know what I mean, as many of us share the same feelings.
#71945 - SeanMon - Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:40 pm
#71955 - Roc - Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:54 pm
The standard version of Opera has an IRC client built-in...do you suppose that would be too much to expect for the DS version?
edit - typo
Last edited by Roc on Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
#71972 - GragonSon - Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:16 pm
Oh man, DS is already an awsome device, now with this additional features it sure will beat the hell out of PSP. This will shut the mouth of those saying PSP is better 'cause it has a web browser
#71989 - tepples - Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:23 pm
Then they'll be saying the PSP is better because you can actually fit a 60 en wide column of text onto one 480-pixel-wide screen instead of having to awkwardly rewrap the text or constantly scroll to the left and right.
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#71997 - tssf - Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:54 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Then they'll be saying the PSP is better because you can actually fit a 60 en wide column of text onto one 480-pixel-wide screen instead of having to awkwardly rewrap the text or constantly scroll to the left and right. |
Actually, according to IGN, the top screen can be configured to display the zoomed in area surrounding the pointer, and the bottom screen can be showing the entire page. Not much unlike many homebrewn-browser ideas that people threw out there a while back.
The two screen vertical page option is also there, so hopefully it's all configurable. I personally can't wait. I wonder if they're also working with Macromedia to include a mobile version of Flash, or with Adobe to have PDF readability. That would rock hard-core.
If not, most web search engines have the ability to convert PDF to HTML anyway.
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#72007 - josath - Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:12 pm
| tssf wrote: |
I wonder if they're also working with Macromedia to include a mobile version of Flash, or with Adobe to have PDF readability. That would rock hard-core.
If not, most web search engines have the ability to convert PDF to HTML anyway. |
I highly doubt it will include Flash or PDF capabilities. Macromedia likes to charge lots of money to manufacturers that want to put Flash Lite on their phones.
By the way, Adobe and Macromedia are the same company now.
#72009 - tssf - Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:27 pm
| josath wrote: |
| tssf wrote: | I wonder if they're also working with Macromedia to include a mobile version of Flash, or with Adobe to have PDF readability. That would rock hard-core.
If not, most web search engines have the ability to convert PDF to HTML anyway. |
I highly doubt it will include Flash or PDF capabilities. Macromedia likes to charge lots of money to manufacturers that want to put Flash Lite on their phones.
By the way, Adobe and Macromedia are the same company now. |
Ah yes, I forgot that Adobe is slowly engulfing the entire media world.
With many many many websites using Flash though, why would they not include support for Flash Lite? Especially if Nintendo is charging money for an otherwise free web browser?
Unless Opera wasn't free.
Ah well.
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#72012 - ssj4android - Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:12 am
Hopefully it comes out in the US. There's rumors that will include a GBA cart with extra RAM, not 100% sure about that though.
#72014 - Sebbo - Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:15 am
Flash Lite running on DS Lite? (ooh, that was bad)
really looking forward to this, now i can sit at uni and jump on the web (it should support WPA now right?)
nintendo would also do well to keep the price down, not many people will be willing to pay full price for this. even so, its definantly on my most wanted list
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#72027 - HyperHacker - Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:12 am
Kickass. Can't wait to pick this up.
| tssf wrote: |
| Especially if Nintendo is charging money for an otherwise free web browser? |
DS cards cost money.
#72029 - Snowy? - Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:43 am
Am I reading something wrong here???
If this connects via Nintendo's network they you'll have free internet access at 100's of public wifi access points just as you have now with all the wifi games.
That's something lots of people would probably pay a one off fee for (for the cart)
#72038 - ssj4android - Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:02 am
So, you think we'll be able to use this free at McDonalds or not? How does Wayport determine if the device is a DS, and then does it allow access to everywhere?
#72046 - GragonSon - Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:39 am
Laptops can use cellphones to go online, right? I wonder DS can do the same
#72061 - OnWarmerMusic - Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:14 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| tssf wrote: | | Especially if Nintendo is charging money for an otherwise free web browser? |
DS cards cost money. |
If I'm not mistaken, so do mobile versions of Opera. I believe the majority of Opera's revenue comes from licensing the mobile browser to cell/PDA manufacturers.
#72081 - tssf - Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:10 am
| HyperHacker wrote: |
Kickass. Can't wait to pick this up.
| tssf wrote: | | Especially if Nintendo is charging money for an otherwise free web browser? |
DS cards cost money. |
Wasn't Nintendo themselves boasting how cheap the DS Cards were to make? Why else were they giving out free Zelda trailer DS Cards at E3? Not to mention the Metroid games that came with the DS's for a limited time..
Besides, if all this is going to do is web browsing without any special web browser features, why would they be charging 30 dollars for it?
Opera must be licensed-based, yeah.
EDIT: anyone checked out Opera's Nintendo DS forum?
A few things one can learn when going to this forum:
-Confirmed: Flash/PDF are not included, RAM expansion is confirmed (there's a specialized one for the DS Lite), Top screen zoomed in bottom screen full page view feature is there for sure.
-Everything else: unconfirmed :P The NDA is preventing the author from talking..though you can seriously tell he really wants to spill the beans. ;) ..still no word on RSS/Java/Javascript or what not. Is Java even feasible?
-Video of it running: http://ghardhentai.hp.infoseek.co.jp/nintendo_wbs.avi
I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's going to have the browser go through a proxy server which would do a lot of the heavy processor-intensive work on the DS server-side. It would also be a good way to prevent people from visiting 18+ adult websites. Seeing as how Nintendo WIFI games require friend codes and such, it's very much Nintendo's style to regulate where people can and can't go on their DS, especially since children may be using this tool.
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#72124 - CubeGuy - Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:00 pm
| brianj (Opera staff) wrote: |
| Opera will have two modes: fit-to-width mode (similar to what mobile users are already familiar with their mobile phones using the Opera Mobile browser). This mode will use Small Screen Rendering to fit the page across both screens. Alternatively, there is a DS mode which displays an overall page view on the lower screen (where you may use the touch screen to navigate around a sort of "mini map") and read the text on the top screen in full-sized view. |
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#72129 - Mr. Picklesworth - Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:43 pm
Don't worry about lack of PDF support.
Google does PDF->HTML, and I'm sure lots of other sites do as well.
It's a shame that this is totally official, so it won't be downloading stuff to my GBAMP :(
I guess there's still lots of room for a homebrew web browser.
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#72131 - MechaBouncer - Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:53 pm
Yeah. I just hope it has Javascript support. Most websites use it for buttons and such. It'd be crazy not to have it. Plus, Google Maps running on a DS? That just seems all too useful there. Plus, I think AIM Express is all Javascript-based, isn't it?
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#72148 - shaz - Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:39 pm
| MechaBouncer wrote: |
| Yeah. I just hope it has Javascript support. Most websites use it for buttons and such. It'd be crazy not to have it. Plus, Google Maps running on a DS? That just seems all too useful there. Plus, I think AIM Express is all Javascript-based, isn't it? |
Java, Adobe Flash and PDF formats are not supported...
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#72151 - MechaBouncer - Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:02 pm
Javascript isn't Java, though.
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#72159 - Dudu.exe - Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:39 pm
#72164 - zzo38computer - Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:07 pm
It needs more than web browser, it needs to have a Telnet client program!
#72165 - CubeGuy - Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:25 pm
I was wondering if there would be two sizes of the cart. It wouldn't make sense to have a new feature ruin the form factor of the lite.
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#72170 - Mr. Picklesworth - Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:22 pm
Eeek!
Two sizes?!
That's not good... makes the DS and DS Lite much less compatible, and may spell ugly things in the future. I was hoping they would make a cart that fit nicely into both the normal DS and the DS Lite.
I hope I'm mistaken...
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#72173 - shaz - Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:52 pm
| shaz wrote: |
| MechaBouncer wrote: | | Yeah. I just hope it has Javascript support. Most websites use it for buttons and such. It'd be crazy not to have it. Plus, Google Maps running on a DS? That just seems all too useful there. Plus, I think AIM Express is all Javascript-based, isn't it? |
Java, Adobe Flash and PDF formats are not supported... |
That post was not a reply MechaBouncer. I just wanted to mention that it doesnt support Java, Adobe Flash and PDF format. Java script is supported tho :)
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#72193 - Nushio - Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:35 pm
What I really wonder is if 'our' homebrew Web-Bowser will have problems due to limited RAM (considering this Opera is going to use 10 megs of extra RAM, and knowing that unless you're using M3 or some similar device, you're stuck with the 4 megs of RAM that comes from the NDS)
#72194 - Dudu.exe - Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:36 pm
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
Eeek!
Two sizes?!
That's not good... makes the DS and DS Lite much less compatible, and may spell ugly things in the future. I was hoping they would make a cart that fit nicely into both the normal DS and the DS Lite.
I hope I'm mistaken... |
this is not about comptible..
GBA games on DS LITE sticks out...
and the borwser with a big card sliping out of the ds is not good...
they kill some Gba space to make Lite smaller
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#72199 - Mr. Picklesworth - Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:40 am
| Quote: |
GBA games on DS LITE sticks out...
and the borwser with a big card sliping out of the ds is not good...
they kill some Gba space to make Lite smaller |
I realize that, but you can't deny that it kills compatibility/ease of use by forcing people to buy different expansion carts. This also means that if someone trashes their normal DS and decides to get a DS Lite, they end up with an incompatible RAM extension. (Thus, it would have been better had they planned ahead, or designed expansion carts which fit nicely into both systems, which appears possible since the current NDS has a good chunk of extra casing over slot-2).
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#72204 - tepples - Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:15 am
Caution: un-confusing pedantry ahead
It doesn't support the JavaScript? language per se, as that's a trademark of Netscape. Only Firefox, Seamonkey, and Netscape browsers support JavaScript. Likewise, IE supports the JScript? language.
The generic word you're looking for is ECMAScript, an international standard that JavaScript and JScript implement. I tend to use "ECMAScript" in writing because sometimes I find a reaction of "what the hell is that? I'll go look it up on Google.com and find the Wikipedia article and learn about the naming issues" better than confusion with Sun's Java? technology.
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#72206 - Sebbo - Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:21 am
couldn't we use the expansion for our own homebrew stuff (after hotswapping the carts of course)
ie. load compressed components into RAM, swap cart to expansion, uncompress components into the 10MB expansion
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#72215 - tepples - Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:52 am
I'm not so sure that components would always necessarily compress that well, but it would allow ARM9 code to relocate sections .text, .rodata, .sbss, and a second, specialized heap to the Expansion Pak in GBA ROM space (where ds.gba stuff ordinarily lives), freeing up EWRAM space for .bss and the standard heap.[1] A restriction would be that no data of type 'char' can be placed in .sbss or the special heap because the Nintendo DS memory controller incorrectly implements byte writes to 0x05000000 through 0x09FFFFFF. Use 'wchar_t' if you want the behavior of Java 'char'; use EWRAM if you want the behavior of Java 'byte'.
[1] Programs written to any semblance of GNU coding standards do not use .data at all:
| FSF wrote: |
| When static storage is to be written in during program execution, use explicit C code to initialize it. Reserve C initialized declarations for data that will not be changed. |
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#72230 - Darkflame - Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:08 am
| Nushio wrote: |
| What I really wonder is if 'our' homebrew Web-Bowser will have problems due to limited RAM (considering this Opera is going to use 10 megs of extra RAM, and knowing that unless you're using M3 or some similar device, you're stuck with the 4 megs of RAM that comes from the NDS) |
IF there will be a homebrew browser, I am sure it wouldnt *need* a ram expansion.
Like others have pointed out, Mobile phones with less ram can handel it ok.
My guese would be that a browser would be "smart" when it comes to loading pictures. If theres a huge jpeg on the page, it only loads(or keeps) enough data to display it at the DS's resolution.
Then, if the user wishs to display it fullscreen, on its own..they can click on it. (then it reloads)
I think less ram just makes things harder, purhapes slower, but I dont think youd have less features.
#72247 - Dudu.exe - Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:21 am
| Mr. Picklesworth wrote: |
| Quote: | GBA games on DS LITE sticks out...
and the borwser with a big card sliping out of the ds is not good...
they kill some Gba space to make Lite smaller |
I realize that, but you can't deny that it kills compatibility/ease of use by forcing people to buy different expansion carts. This also means that if someone trashes their normal DS and decides to get a DS Lite, they end up with an incompatible RAM extension. (Thus, it would have been better had they planned ahead, or designed expansion carts which fit nicely into both systems, which appears possible since the current NDS has a good chunk of extra casing over slot-2). |
the big ram e. fits on lite.. as supercard and othets gba cards... only the small ram ex. will not fit on old ds. ( and its just for beauty.. ) i realy dont see any problem
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#72276 - MaHe - Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:50 am
Oh, the irony. I'm just writing this from my mobile phone. It has Opera Mini installed. Very good application in my opinion. It's using some kind of a proxy server to render the websites, which saves bandwidth and therefore money.
I bet this browser will use the same thing ... but maybe I'm wrong ...
#72279 - Xtreme - Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:22 am
| MaHe wrote: |
Oh, the irony. I'm just writing this from my mobile phone. It has Opera Mini installed. Very good application in my opinion. It's using some kind of a proxy server to render the websites, which saves bandwidth and therefore money.
I bet this browser will use the same thing ... but maybe I'm wrong ... |
I have used Opera Mini in my Nokia phone for months. Yes it does use proxy server that modifies the pages.
DS version will have memory expansion.. I don't know why, but I feel like they are making a real browser with no proxy at all. Maybe the extra ram is for pages with big image files and stuff.
Will there be java or "ECMAScript" support?
Will there be integrated chat in Opera?
Will there be support for PNG images?
I think we will have no flash, shockwave, quicktime, realplayer, etc.
Who knows for sure (only development team). Only future will tell.
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#72283 - iceman7 - Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:44 am
you can try to send Opera a e-mail, they will respond it, somebody from a Dutch site did it.
here's the link to the article where they refer to that e-mail:
http://www.gamed.nl/view/14542?PHPSESSID=400e1adf6623628177c8d9e710faaa17
Knowing that you guys are(often) not Dutch, so if you want a translation site, here's the link
http://www.freetranslation.com/
#72293 - Xtreme - Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:18 am
Opera for DS
The browser seems to already exist.
Video clip: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VPUHW5R1 (after waiting.. close the add with X to see download link)
| iceman7 wrote: |
| you can try to send Opera a e-mail, they will respond it, somebody from a Dutch site did it. |
OPERA ANSWERS QUESTIONS:
http://www.ds-x2.com/index.php?id=4858
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#72346 - Darkflame - Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:54 pm
Even if it dosnt have a chat features, if it supports Jav...ECMAScript, then theres plenty of online chat based programs.
I hope Gmail works fine, thats all I want :)
(well, and map.google.com hopefully too)
#72348 - JaJa - Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:29 pm
| MaHe wrote: |
Oh, the irony. I'm just writing this from my mobile phone. It has Opera Mini installed. Very good application in my opinion. It's using some kind of a proxy server to render the websites, which saves bandwidth and therefore money.
I bet this browser will use the same thing ... but maybe I'm wrong ... |
http://sc.tri-bit.com/Irony
#72353 - MaHe - Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:22 pm
Umm. Yeah. Thanks for pointing that out. ;)
#72355 - ghazi - Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:35 pm
Oh man, it's so ironic that JaJa posted that link right after MaHe used the word!
More on topic, though, it's hard to imagine a browser not being compatible with ECMAscript these days.
#72357 - CubeGuy - Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:12 pm
I don't think that the DS RAM expansion will be that much of a big deal compatablity-wise.
Obviously, the larger cart will work in the Lite, and if someone owns a Lite, then can opt for the smaller version.
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#72361 - josath - Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:36 pm
| JaJa wrote: |
| MaHe wrote: | Oh, the irony. I'm just writing this from my mobile phone. It has Opera Mini installed. Very good application in my opinion. It's using some kind of a proxy server to render the websites, which saves bandwidth and therefore money.
I bet this browser will use the same thing ... but maybe I'm wrong ... |
http://sc.tri-bit.com/Irony |
Speaking of StoneCypher, I've heard rumors that he has a DS web browser all ready to go, and is just waiting for the TCP wifi code from sgstair and then he will release it. Maybe we will beat nintendo to the punch?
#72362 - tssf - Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:42 pm
So let me get this straight, they're not including Flash, merely because no one's made a Flash plugin for the DS?
Well hell, this topic can change that.
I'm sure the RAM expansion will allow for those kinds of updates and such.. but yeah. Perhaps someone should be telling the Opera crew about homebrew and what's being done there.
I suppose it's more complicated than that. If Flash were to be supported on the DS, then Adobe will want a cut of the profits made, for sure.
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#72379 - Darkflame - Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:14 am
Dont see why...it would have to be a custom flash player, not one made by Adobe.
They cant charge you for merely makeing software that can understand thier format.
(unless you use their trademark, or nick their code ect ect)
#72381 - tepples - Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:30 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
They cant charge you for merely makeing software that can understand thier format.
(unless you use their trademark, or nick their code ect ect) |
Or unless Adobe holds patents.
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#72385 - Darkflame - Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:02 am
I dont think you can patent a format though can you?
I thought the method to understand the format could be patented...but I didnt think the format itself could be.
At least it shouldnt be :-/
They patent screwed up things. Patenteds should always be about methods, not results.
I mean, thats why theres so many Divx/Xvid/Mpeg4 stuff isnt it?
I confess, I am not so sure now :-/
#72387 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:43 am
No, Adobe does not completely own the PDF format. There are other PDF readers available, such as Foxit reader.
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#72400 - Dudu.exe - Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:12 am
Java, flash and PDF isnt important
Pdf can be read thouhg google ... flash and java nerver will run smooth on ds.. ( they dont even run well on my pc ) , is better not to suport then make a crapy support
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#72409 - MaHe - Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:48 am
Still, I bet some kind of advanced J2ME Virtual Machine could run VERY smoothly on the DS :)
#72412 - tssf - Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:04 pm
These are features that are going to be left up to a homebrewn browser.
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#72463 - Darkflame - Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:55 pm
| Dudu.exe wrote: |
Java, flash and PDF isnt important
Pdf can be read thouhg google ... flash and java nerver will run smooth on ds.. ( they dont even run well on my pc ) , is better not to suport then make a crapy support |
Dunno, the flash demo someone did was pretty good speed imo.
It lacked many things feature wise, but speed didnt seem to be a big problem.
(supprisingly)
#72477 - tssf - Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:59 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| Dudu.exe wrote: | Java, flash and PDF isnt important
Pdf can be read thouhg google ... flash and java nerver will run smooth on ds.. ( they dont even run well on my pc ) , is better not to suport then make a crapy support |
Dunno, the flash demo someone did was pretty good speed imo.
It lacked many things feature wise, but speed didnt seem to be a big problem.
(supprisingly) |
And even then it wasn't even optimized.
Given substantial development time, a flash player could play at full speed on the DS. :) Probably with sound, too.
The DS has a substantially less display area than a PC would, so people who say it won't work need to realize that if Flash WERE used in a DS browser, it wouldn't be displaying the stuff at full frame. I don't know about anyone else, but flash files ran a lot faster when they were "resized" to a smaller display area, for me.
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#72531 - G-Pjube - Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:05 pm
New interview:
| Quote: |
ACE: Who approached whom to create this software? Did Nintendo approach your company, or did Opera pitch it to Nintendo?
O: Nintendo came to Opera and requested that Opera work with them to port and optimize our browser for the DS.
ACE: Was it difficult to develop an Opera web browser for the DS?
O: Not that porting to any platform or device is easy work, but Opera has done this before and has succeeded in becoming a modular and flexible Web browser. The DS provides a unique form factor with dual screens and touch-screen technology and many of Opera’s core technologies come into play very nicely in this setting, such as Small-Screen Rendering (SSR).
ACE: How much functionality from the PC version of Opera will make its way to the DS version? Will Opera’s email or pop-up blocking features be present on the DS?
O: We will leave these details to be revealed by Nintendo when they are ready.
ACE: Will any sort of features be included in the browser to protect users from viruses lurking the web?
O: Opera is a tremendously secure browser even on Windows. On the specialized OS in the DS, Opera should be even more protected from malicious code intended for desktop browsers.
ACE: At this point, the Opera DS browser has only been announced for Japan. When can we expect to hear about a North American and European version of the software?
O: Nintendo is still deciding on its global launch plans. Of course Opera would like to see this browser solution for DS available to people everywhere.
ACE: The PC version of Opera tends to get updates every so often, currently at version 8. Will the DS version see updates for the software as well, either available through download or at retail?
O: Unfortunately, we will have to defer to Nintendo to address this question when they are ready.
ACE: How powerful is Opera’s DS browser? Can it display flash, or streaming audio / video footage?
O: The version of Opera we have been working with Nintendo on for the DS can surf the full Internet, but the initial version does not include Flash support.
ACE: Opera will make use of the DS touch screen as a means for users to type via a keypad. Are there any other ways that the software will take advantage of the DS’ twin screens?
O: Opera for DS has two display modes: Fit-to-width and DS mode. In fit-to-width mode, Opera uses both screens for scrolling up or down a page with both screens completing the view. In DS mode, an overview of the Web page is displayed on the lower screen and a pink square can be moved around an area of the page. The area you have selected is shown on the upper screen. This is a unique way to deliver the Web to take advantage of the DS hardware configuration and Opera has worked closely with Nintendo to optimize this experience. |
Source: ArmChairEmpire
Note the bold word, could this mean that the DS version of Opera will get updates and that maybe the expansion pack is not all RAM but could also contain space for more content?
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#72535 - tepples - Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:28 pm
It could also mean that "Opera 2006" won't support SWF but "Opera 2007" might. Welcome to EA sequel hell ;-)
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#72542 - G-Pjube - Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:18 pm
That would really piss me off
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#72552 - Darkflame - Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:56 pm
Yup, i can imagine them doing that..
~sigh~
#72557 - tssf - Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:38 pm
Perhaps they'll pull a Square and release a limited Japanese version to see how it does.
Then when they release it on the other side of the globe, they'll include all the features everyone wants. Then, and only then will the Japanese version be re-released as "Opera DS Extended Version" or something :)
Probably not.
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#72589 - Sebbo - Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:50 am
my thoughts were that "initial" means the build that they've currently shown to public, and the "final" version will be the one sent to stores
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#72601 - tssf - Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:29 am
Ever use Opera's "Small Screen Rendering" option? it's not very pretty at all, IMO. I really don't like it. Thank God they're going to keep the zoom/pan option, I think that would work a lot better.
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#72603 - NoMis - Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:49 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| ... They patent screwed up things. Patenteds should always be about methods, not results. ... |
Patents should not be applieable to software at all!
#72712 - Darkflame - Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:36 am
| NoMis wrote: |
| Darkflame wrote: | | ... They patent screwed up things. Patenteds should always be about methods, not results. ... |
Patents should not be applieable to software at all! |
I dissagree, to say that says software can not contain inventions, or anything that is invented is worthless.
If I invent say, a sorting system that is 40% faster then any other sorting system divised, surely I have have the right to profit from it?
Why should every company in the world be able to copy my method without me getting anything in return?
The only problem with software patents at the moment is the people granting patents havnt got a darn clue about technology and seem to be completely ignoreing "prior art".
They also dont seem to understand what a "method" means, so you even get stuff like massive prime numbers being patented, or DNA code, for that mater...
~sigh~
#72715 - tepples - Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:04 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
I dissagree, to say that says software can not contain inventions, or anything that is invented is worthless.
If I invent say, a sorting system that is 40% faster then any other sorting system divised, surely I have have the right to profit from it?
Why should every company in the world be able to copy my method without me getting anything in return? |
One difference between copyrights and patents is that a patent holder still has grounds to sue somebody else who independently invents the same process. (The sick rationale behind this is that all engineers are deemed responsible for reading all subsisting patents and watching uspto.gov for new patents that issue.) This hurts software more than other fields because independent invention is rife in software.
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#72742 - Xtreme - Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:09 am
I edited my post in this topic (second post in the first page).
Some news sites haven't still released any news about the Nintendo DS Browser.
What I have gathered is that the Browser is already in final dev step and they are only waiting for it to be released. Maybe they are missing a guide, packaging, etc. or they might just have decided to release it summer (not sooner or later).
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#72754 - kevinc - Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:36 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| If I invent say, a sorting system that is 40% faster then any other sorting system divised, surely I have have the right to profit from it? |
Indeed, that's what copyright is for. Copyright your implementation and make money of it.
An algorithm is basically a mathematical device; maths should *not* be patentable.
#72775 - Darkflame - Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:51 pm
| kevinc wrote: |
| Darkflame wrote: | | If I invent say, a sorting system that is 40% faster then any other sorting system divised, surely I have have the right to profit from it? |
Indeed, that's what copyright is for. Copyright your implementation and make money of it.
An algorithm is basically a mathematical device; maths should *not* be patentable. |
no.
Copyright is no where near good enough.
For one thing, it could be translated to another computer language, yet function in an identical way. Copywrite covers merely whats written, not what it means.
A computer program is a method, it is NOT merely mathematics.
Mathamatics is to do with relationships between values.
Methods, patents, programs, deal with the manipulation of data or objects. (often using mathamatics, but its not the same as)
| Quote: |
| One difference between copyrights and patents is that a patent holder still has grounds to sue somebody else who independently invents the same process. |
Not really a difference though, if someone "Independantly" wrote something identicaly to someone else, (and published it) they could still be sued for it.
Its just far,far less likely to happen.
| Quote: |
| This hurts software more than other fields because independent invention is rife in software. |
The spirit and purpose of patents is the encourage original development, and to reward those that find a better way of doing things.
While independant invention may be very common in software...that dosnt mean by a long short that the common things should be patentable.
(and certainly not retro-actively).
If I casualy invent something Id have to be pretty darn sure it had never been done before in order to go to the bother of patenting it.
I think the case's of that will actualy be quite rare.
Especialy as it (should) have to be a new method thats patented, not merely an overall generic bit of software. Or worse, a format...a format shouldnt be patented, its nothing more then a protocal, an order of data.
And if anything is patented, at no stage should the patent be proof that the concept was original. If someone comes up with evidence they were first, patent rights have to be handed over.
Software patents should purhapes have a short life then regular patents, and also, any software patented would have to be open-source. (else how can it be checked?).
But I think we should reward original codeing methods, because I dont see computers reaching their potential software limits even if hardware stood still.
Oh, and if I quickly made a method to load a web page full jpegs of any size onto the DS's screen using just 4MB of ram Id want to sale it to opera :P
#72788 - kevinc - Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:03 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
A computer program is a method, it is NOT merely mathematics.
Mathamatics is to do with relationships between values.
|
Well, you said a sorting system that is 40% faster then any other sorting system divised. That sounds to me like an algorithm for sorting which in average case is 40% faster than other sorting algorithms. Since algorithms are an application of logic, are systems based "on deductive reasoning, starting from axioms and definitions" (reduceable to lambda calculus), and are definitely involved in "quantity" and "change", I'd say they pretty much fit into "maths" :)
| Quote: |
| any software patented would have to be open-source. (else how can it be checked?). |
You want to patent your code or your algorithm?
| Quote: |
| Oh, and if I quickly made a method to load a web page full jpegs of any size onto the DS's screen using just 4MB of ram Id want to sale it to opera :P |
Even if they invented it on their own? Inventing new algorithms that can be reduced to existing ones is not hard. Heck, I invented an algorithm which ended being equivalent to "drawing 3d-stuff with a Z-buffer", and no way I'd pay royalties to Mr. Catmull :D
#72797 - tepples - Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:54 pm
| Darkflame wrote: |
| The spirit and purpose of patents is the encourage original development, and to reward those that find a better way of doing things. |
Unfortunately, patents are a minefield, and in the field of software, one may spend more time making sure that what you have developed is not already subject to one or more patents than actually inventing things.
| Quote: |
If I casualy invent something Id have to be pretty darn sure it had never been done before in order to go to the bother of patenting it.
I think the case's of that will actualy be quite rare. |
Rare? Hardly:
| The author of gzip wrote: |
| I have probably spent more time studying data compression patents than actually implementing data compression algorithms. I maintain a list of several hundred patents on lossless data compression algorithms, and I made sure that gzip isn't covered by any of them. In particular, the --fast option of gzip is not as fast it could, precisely to avoid a patented technique. |
Does this situation "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts"?
| Quote: |
| Especialy as it (should) have to be a new method thats patented, not merely an overall generic bit of software. Or worse, a format...a format shouldnt be patented, its nothing more then a protocal, an order of data. |
Problem is that the USPTO considers "a format" or "a protocol" to be "a new method" of communicating data.
| Quote: |
| Software patents should purhapes have a short life then regular patents, and also, any software patented would have to be open-source. (else how can it be checked?). |
All U.S. software patents come with source code written in a programming language called Patent English. Search for "preferred embodiment" in any patent to find it.
| Quote: |
| Oh, and if I quickly made a method to load a web page full jpegs of any size onto the DS's screen using just 4MB of ram Id want to sale it to opera :P |
Easy. Cache the JPEGs compressed, and only decode the DC coefficients in the page view. The user has to click the image, bringing it to the foreground, to decode the JPEG file fully.
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