#81460 - ghazi - Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:31 am
I'm not sure why this hasn't been brought up yet (or maybe it has), but it occurred to me today, while I was listening to an internet radio station, that we really haven't had any programs capable of streaming audio. If this has already come up and I?m just wasting time, I apologize!
Think about it ? instead of loading up your poor CF card with lots of space-consuming MP3s, wouldn?t it be more convenient to utilize a wireless connection to listen to your music while you?re not at home?
Naturally, the biggest issue is probably the complexity of getting an app to be compatible with many different methods of online streaming. On top of that, there are even more problems when it comes to the format ? MP3, RealMedia, Windows Media, Quicktime, etc.
So, in an environment where we have the ability to remotely control our own computers with a DS, what if we instead focused on streaming a homemade standard that fits best (and stream the sound that our computers are already producing)? Just like the other computer-connecting apps, a little server-side program would process the signal to the most efficient format, and then it could be sent to the DS to be played.
Not only could you tune in to your favorite web broadcasts, but you could also queue up your own playlist and have access to your entire music collection!
Anyway, I guess you can consider this sort of a project proposal. I?m an IE, so I don?t know how difficult something like this would be to create, or even if the DS is capable of a task like this with its memory constraints, but I do think that it would probably be the easiest method and it would certainly be a very efficient way to let people have access to more than just the 50 MP3s they have crammed on a card that?s already full of homebrew.
Personally, I want this so I can listen to talk radio when my real radio isn?t getting any reception! =P
#81461 - waruwaru - Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:45 am
#81463 - Dwedit - Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:59 am
By installing Icecast and DSP_Oddcast, you can turn your Winamp into an internet radio station which streams MP3, WMA, or Vorbis.
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#81484 - tepples - Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:11 pm
| ghazi wrote: |
| instead of loading up your poor CF card with lots of space-consuming MP3s, wouldn?t it be more convenient to utilize a wireless connection to listen to your music while you?re not at home? |
On which bus do you have a Wi-Fi connection that lasts longer than 1 second when the bus drives by a house with an open AP?
| Quote: |
| Personally, I want this so I can listen to talk radio when my real radio isn?t getting any reception! =P |
If you can't get AM or FM radio, then odds are good that you're not within range of Wi-Fi either.
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#81490 - Kvasir - Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:16 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| ghazi wrote: | | instead of loading up your poor CF card with lots of space-consuming MP3s, wouldn?t it be more convenient to utilize a wireless connection to listen to your music while you?re not at home? |
On which bus do you have a Wi-Fi connection that lasts longer than 1 second when the bus drives by a house with an open AP? |
That's quite an ignorant way to think. Did the OP mention he wanted to listen on the bus? There are quite a few scenarios that this could be utilized for such as travel (not while travelling, however), work and school. Instead of a proprietary app on the host machine, however, I would say a good method is to write an application for the DS that can handle shoutcast streaming radio, and go through the normal setup required on the PC side to get the stream running.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | Personally, I want this so I can listen to talk radio when my real radio isn?t getting any reception! =P |
If you can't get AM or FM radio, then odds are good that you're not within range of Wi-Fi either. |
Houston is home to some of the shittiest reception, radio wise. With that said, I'm connected to an AP right now.
Honestly, every time I see this type of question asked (streaming audio/video), the response is always the same. If you don't know how to do it, then just say so instead of getting defensive and saying it can't be done. Technically I believe it can be done, but I'm pretty sure streaming 128kbps audio will not be possible for a very long time, if at all.
As much as I'd like to write an application that could do this, I'm still a newbie. Never say never.
#81498 - tepples - Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:44 pm
| Kvasir wrote: |
| tepples wrote: | | ghazi wrote: | | wouldn?t it be more convenient to utilize a wireless connection to listen to your music while you?re not at home? |
On which bus do you have a Wi-Fi connection that lasts longer than 1 second when the bus drives by a house with an open AP? |
That's quite an ignorant way to think. Did the OP mention he wanted to listen on the bus? |
No, but I routinely use MoonShell to listen to .ogg files on the city bus.
| Quote: |
| There are quite a few scenarios that this could be utilized for such as travel (not while travelling, however), work and school. |
Use of the APs on my school's campus requires 802.1X authentication, and use of many other public APs requires support for the HTTPS and HTML used by the captive portal. Does sgstair's Wi-Fi library support this?
| Quote: |
| write an application for the DS that can handle shoutcast streaming radio, and go through the normal setup required on the PC side to get the stream running. |
Can the DS decode all codecs used by Shoutcast and the like in real time? MoonShell can play MP3, but what about WMA, Real, and AAC?
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#81514 - Kvasir - Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:55 pm
Just because something isn't possible at the moment, doesn't mean it isn't possible in the future.
I love moonshell, and use it quite often. I can see the use for streaming audio, however. The main point I'm trying to get through is that it isn't impossible. It won't happen overnight obviously, but just because it isn't a do-able thing right now doesn't mean that coming up with ideas or suggestions on how to do it should be taboo.
I believe I already answered your questions if you read my last post clearly enough, by the way. To reiterate, here's the answer more succinctly:
Not right now, but it's not impossible to implement.
#81521 - tepples - Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:39 pm
There are some things that are possible to implement in official licensed software but are impossible to implement in homebrew programs that are designed to be distributed in countries where gbadev.org is widely read. Anything involving a patented codec is one of them, as the patent pools are more likely to work with a licensed publisher than with hobbyists.
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#81525 - Kvasir - Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:59 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| There are some things that are possible to implement in official licensed software but are impossible to implement in homebrew programs that are designed to be distributed in countries where gbadev.org is widely read. Anything involving a patented codec is one of them, as the patent pools are more likely to work with a licensed publisher than with hobbyists. |
Ahhh. I didn't take into account things like that. Sorry for being so stubborn about it. :\
#81530 - ghazi - Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:48 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| There are some things that are possible to implement in official licensed software but are impossible to implement in homebrew programs that are designed to be distributed in countries where gbadev.org is widely read. Anything involving a patented codec is one of them, as the patent pools are more likely to work with a licensed publisher than with hobbyists. |
That really only supports my point, though. By adding a small layer of complexity (streaming from your home computer rather than directly from a ShoutCast station or something), we can avoid all of the patent rubbish by simply choosing a compatible form that works with the DS. I don't know what that is off the top of my head, of course, but that's sort of why I wanted to throw this idea out there.
As far as the bit rate of the stream goes, many internet streams (and they're increasing in number) probably have too high of a quality for the DS to handle. This is another reason why the simplest solution (even though it's admittedly not the most elegant) would be to stream from your home computer - a standard bit rate that we know the DS can play well.
As far as authentication goes, that means you can't use any of the other online programs on your campus either - so either the point is somewhat moot or you can do what I did and spoof your DS's MAC with a laptop to get it running. =)
I guess I don't know how many users it would really benefit, because maybe they don't work or go to school in large metal buildings that block out a lot of radio signals. Maybe it would be sort of a niche market, huh?
Anyway, I didn't mean to cause a huge argument, so I'm sorry for that! I just sort of wanted to give an idea to any devs who were considering this sort of streaming thing and didn't know where to take it. I really appreciate all the input! It's opened my eyes to how large of an undertaking this might really be.
By the way: Thanks, waruwaru! It didn't occur to me that I could do some Linux and have an easy solution. It might still be nice to see a more simple method, but I'll have to look into mplayer for my own purposes!
#81537 - JaJa - Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:50 pm
On moonshell i have played mp3s upto 320kb/s, and often play 192kb/s.
Many internet radio stations are 128kb/s.
The DS should be able to stream internet radio stations.
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#81538 - HyperHacker - Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:01 pm
Playing 320kb/s doesn't mean it can stream 128kb/s.
Personally I'd love to have this. It'd mean being able to listen to MP3s in other rooms without having to use headphones.
#81547 - tepples - Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:53 pm
| HyperHacker wrote: |
| Personally I'd love to have this. It'd mean being able to listen to MP3s in other rooms without having to use headphones. |
You're entitled to your opinion, but personally, I can't stand MP3s through the DS's internal speaker, so I have to use headphones.
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#81552 - Flood_of_SYNs - Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:29 am
I am not sure I this has already been pointed out, but in that DSLinux blog posting the DS was displaying video in a text window over a telnet session with a computer that was running mplayer.
The DS wasn't running mplayer within it's self.
But now that there is XIP in DSLinux's kernel, it should be possible to compile mplayer (or maybe even VLC) for running under DSLinux.
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#81554 - Darkflame - Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:04 am
On a seperate but related issue, simply getting all sound output from a pc to be routed to the DS would be a nice step towards having a VoIP app.
(or rather, you use existing voice over IP apps like Skype, and your DS just acts as a wireless handset for it).
This would be wonderfully usefull in my house at least.
#81563 - tepples - Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:02 am
| Darkflame wrote: |
| On a seperate but related issue, simply getting all sound output from a pc to be routed to the DS would be a nice step towards having a VoIP app. |
To do this, you'd need a shim driver similar to Total Recorder, and those don't work 1. with restrictions-managed audio played through the Secure Audio Path or 2. on Windows Vista 64, which requires all driver authors to pay 500 USD per year for a VeriSign certificate.
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#81571 - Darkflame - Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:53 am
err..what? :-/
But lots of software can record all the sounds the PC makes to a wave file ('record moniter' function on creative recorder, for instance)...surely you use the techique as that, only you stream the output somewhere else?
And, if that dosnt work, you could always just ask people to put a two-way phono cable between the LineIn and the Speaker ports :D :D
Also, for VoIP I dont see how any DRM crap would apply to it...(is that what restrictions managed audio is? I already decided awhile ago not to get Vista,so I havnt been keeping up with recent developments)
#81582 - tssf - Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:24 am
| tepples wrote: |
| ghazi wrote: | | instead of loading up your poor CF card with lots of space-consuming MP3s, wouldn?t it be more convenient to utilize a wireless connection to listen to your music while you?re not at home? |
On which bus do you have a Wi-Fi connection that lasts longer than 1 second when the bus drives by a house with an open AP?
| Quote: | | Personally, I want this so I can listen to talk radio when my real radio isn?t getting any reception! =P |
If you can't get AM or FM radio, then odds are good that you're not within range of Wi-Fi either. |
Downtown Toronto is being flooded with wifi internet access as there's an Access point on every street light.
EDIT: Gave a link with relevent data.
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#81593 - tepples - Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:39 pm
| tssf wrote: |
| Downtown Toronto is being flooded with wifi internet access as there's an Access point on every street light. |
Cool. But how fast can a roaming device switch among those APs?
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#81609 - Darkflame - Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:34 pm
I think its unlikely you could ever stream while moveing between points...not on normal wi-fi devices anyway.
Maybe if someone made some sort of dual-recieveing thing that can connect with two at the same time, so you could connect to the next one before dissconecting with your current one.
Maybe in the future while dual-arials and software radio this could be done :p
Heck, going further, WiFiMax, SoftwareRadio and P2P ISPs.
Would get very slow the more hops it needs to make, of course.
#81940 - TJ - Tue May 02, 2006 9:56 pm
| Quote: |
Use of the APs on my school's campus requires 802.1X authentication, and use of many other public APs requires support for the HTTPS and HTML used by the captive portal. Does sgstair's Wi-Fi library support this? |
That sucks for you, but all the APs on my campus are freely open. Just because it doesn't work for you, it shouldn't be made?
What is your hang up with doing this while moving on a bus, and roaming between APs? Why can't you just listen to streaming internet radio sitting still?
What if a person would like to listen to internet streams from their backyard, or when working out? I could see a lot of uses for this software, and would definitely make use of it myself.
It is also not without precedent. PSPRadio does exactly what we are talking about here, and there are even devices like the InFusion. which is a portable WiFi internet radio.
#81945 - tepples - Tue May 02, 2006 10:28 pm
| TJ wrote: |
| That sucks for you, but all the APs on my campus are freely open. Just because it doesn't work for you, it shouldn't be made? |
Did I say that? If it works for you, then good for you; just don't take my lack of use for a given program as lack of dedication to the platform.
| Quote: |
| What is your hang up with doing this while moving on a bus, and roaming between APs? Why can't you just listen to streaming internet radio sitting still? |
Where there is open Wi-Fi (i.e. no captive portal or WPA or 802.1X) near me, there is an open PC.
| Quote: |
| What if a person would like to listen to internet streams from their backyard, or when working out? |
Because the local gym doesn't have open Wi-Fi, and neither does a backyard if the house's walls block the signal.
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#81946 - JaJa - Tue May 02, 2006 10:35 pm
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | What if a person would like to listen to internet streams from their backyard, or when working out? |
Because the local gym doesn't have open Wi-Fi, and neither does a backyard if the house's walls block the signal. |
What the hell have you got in your walls?
I can get a wifi signal in my back garden and that is through at least three walls.
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#81947 - ghazi - Tue May 02, 2006 10:43 pm
Yet another reason to avoid lead-based paint, huh? ;-P
#81971 - HyperHacker - Wed May 03, 2006 3:53 am
| tepples wrote: |
| HyperHacker wrote: | | Personally I'd love to have this. It'd mean being able to listen to MP3s in other rooms without having to use headphones. |
You're entitled to your opinion, but personally, I can't stand MP3s through the DS's internal speaker, so I have to use headphones. |
I was actually thinking of cases where I can't use headphones. I occasionally tinker with electronics, and I can't have a cord dangling off my head; I'd just end up melting it with a soldering iron.
| tssf wrote: |
| Downtown Toronto is being flooded with wifi internet access as there's an Access point on every street light. |
Holy crap that's awesome. It's like in all those sci-fi anim?s where people just pull out a PDA and have a strong, fast enough wireless signal to do realtime video chat anywhere they are. :-p