#86431 - yackom - Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:27 am
#86448 - StiNKy - Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:00 am
It's a shame you're not going to try and keep going by yourself, it looks amazing especially in a two week period! Even without the textures.
#86449 - yackom - Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:07 am
Thanks, Stinky
I know but work and life in general take alot of time too. At least I'm not just sitting on it anymore. :)
#86456 - FatboY - Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:08 am
Oh god, this is amazing. I really hope you find someone to carry on the project - I only wish I had the time to delve into and learn the Quake engine myself.
Seriously, this needs to be finished for the sake of humanity! Since I first played First Hunt, I knew the DS would be the perfect platform for a conversion of Quake 1. Now I know we're one step closer.
Someone please pick this project up :D
#86457 - yackom - Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:18 am
Don't NEED to know how the quake engine works, but a experinced c/c++ programmer would be needed at the least.
#86471 - Lazy1 - Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:09 pm
Nice!
No console is complete without a quake port :)
I'm wondering though, are you using a software renderer or the DS's 3D hardware?
#86472 - HtheB - Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:19 pm
cooL!!!! :D
#86477 - yackom - Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:44 pm
Lazy1 wrote: |
Nice!
No console is complete without a quake port :)
I'm wondering though, are you using a software renderer or the DS's 3D hardware? |
It's 3d hardware
#86478 - Scorpei - Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:47 pm
I'm no good coder :), but I might be able to help with graphics (textures) and testing.
Just let me know if I'm needed :).
*edit* weej! 3D hardware!
#86513 - sajiimori - Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:56 pm
Textures will be interesting. Although the DS is capable of light maps, it murders the poly count and especially the fill rate. VQuake (for the Rendition Verite chips) was more like the software version in that it kept a cache of combined color and light data which allowed single-pass texturing.
It uses a lot of VRAM (since every visible surface has a unique texture) and some frames might be dropped when going around corners (as it needs to cache some new surfaces), but you could always reduce the texture detail.
#86554 - M3d10n - Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:48 pm
Maybe a better approach would be "baking" the lightmap data into the vertex colors, in a similar way to Metroid Prime.
That way lighting and textures can be rendered in a single pass.
#86556 - tepples - Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:52 pm
Vertex lighting misses highlights from weapon flares, and it also misses cast shadows.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#86577 - Lazy1 - Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:52 pm
You might get a nice speed boost by removing the quake virtual machine and porting all those entities and gamerules to C.
Still funny how the DS gets quake before doom, I never saw that one coming.
#86579 - sajiimori - Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:24 pm
You could get a high level of detail using vertex lighting if you cut the polys small enough, but that would be rather expensive.
Rendering is likely to remain the bottleneck indefinitely, so optimization hours will be better spent there rather than on game logic. Besides, a lot of the time that appears to be spent in the VM is actually spent on engine calls that are made from the VM, such as BSP traces.
#86593 - tepples - Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:16 am
Lazy1 wrote: |
the DS gets quake before doom |
Heretic and Hexen are already ported, and they use the same engine as Doom.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#86665 - M3d10n - Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:17 pm
tepples wrote: |
Vertex lighting misses highlights from weapon flares, and it also misses cast shadows. |
Ever seen the Saturn Quake port? Lobotomy converted the Quake lightmaps into vertex-lighting, so the cast shadows were still there (looked like a really low-res filtered lightmap) and also supported dynamic lighting.
Check this video of Powerslave/Exhumed on Saturn, which used the same engine, but had sprites instead of 3D models:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhcx4aPM3aY
Of course, Saturn Quake didn't use the original art assets. The levels' structures were strikling similar, but I'm sure they ran the original levels through a converter, maybe even doing manual tweaking thereafter.
#86797 - yackom - Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:01 pm
Hi guys,
Thanks for your insight and concern about the lighting in DSQuake, I'll definitly look back at the info when the time is right.
I updated my blog here, I would paste the post it but its rather large.
http://dsquake.blogspot.com/
You can disguss any of those points here I definitly check back here pretty often now.
#86838 - Linkiboy - Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:09 pm
So PC to DS interacton, huh? That's some cool stuff, man. Good luck with the project.
#86881 - spacepirate - Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:57 am
Looks pretty good. I think it would be nice to have an option to play with the RAM on cards such as the supercard but i don't think it should be a requirement. Shrinking the textures down should work out excellently. I say go for it. Keep up the great work! We're all looking forward to the first public release.
_________________
SCSD, 1GB Kingston, Flashme v7 on DS v1, Flashme v7 on DS Lite
#86948 - M3d10n - Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:15 pm
How much RAM can S3TC-compressed textures save? Maybe it should be worthy taking a look into the DS compressed texture format (though I've only seen discussions on it, but nothing seems to have been implemented so far).
#86958 - tepples - Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:03 am
S3 texture compression is 4 bits per pixel. Each 4x4 pixel block is 64 bits, made of two 16-bit pixels (low and high) and sixteen 2-bit ratios (low, high, 50/50 mix, transparent).
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#86980 - yackom - Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:48 am
I was unaware of any texture compression!
I'll take a look into it, thanks guys!
#87969 - Dracker - Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:31 pm
If RAM is an issue, would it be possible to use the flashcart as swap? Also, perhaps more stuff could be loaded in and out as-needed, to make room.
I bet this would be a flashcart compatibility issue though; I can imagine this would only be feasible with some carts.
#87973 - sajiimori - Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:00 pm
Compressing character textures seems like a good idea.
If you go the surface cache route for the world (which is probably more practical than lightmaps), native texture compression isn't much of an option as you'd have to do it on-the-fly.
#88028 - clone dad - Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:10 am
now all we need is a half life...hint hint...
#88029 - vb_master - Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:25 am
clone dad wrote: |
now all we need is a half life...hint hint... |
If we get Doom working we can get the Half-Life mod for Doom.
_________________
Back.
#88031 - silent_code - Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:49 am
vb_master wrote: |
clone dad wrote: | now all we need is a half life...hint hint... | If we get Doom working we can get the Half-Life mod for Doom. |
DOOM? this is about quake...
#88032 - vb_master - Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:55 am
silent_code wrote: |
vb_master wrote: | clone dad wrote: | now all we need is a half life...hint hint... | If we get Doom working we can get the Half-Life mod for Doom. |
DOOM? this is about quake... |
He asked about Half-Life, I don't know of any Quake Half-Life mod.
_________________
Back.
#88033 - silent_code - Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:56 am
is there a doom half life mod? *lol*
i mean this thread is about quake... (hl is based on q ;) )
#88037 - kekit - Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:43 am
half-life is based on the quake 2 engine
#88039 - silent_code - Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:07 am
kekit wrote: |
half-life is based on the quake 2 engine |
*lol*
that is plain wrong. it only contains about 50 lines of q2s networking code. go google a bit and you'll know it. it's based on q1. actually q2 was released during the development of hl ;) (though i'm too lazy to check the release dates). it's good that they didn't change engines like 3drealms do for dn:forever... ;p btw, this is official info from valve... don't ask for links, just google and you will find it. i'm not here to prove you're wrong :p
EDIT:
*lmao*
googled myself just for fun... first hit is a killer...
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?doc=1028244478-62628500
here you have it. now stop talking about hl, that's offtopic.
-------
REALLY nice port man!
#88044 - kekit - Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:26 am
You learn something new everyday I guess. I was just under the impression that it was based on the q2 engine.
#88154 - Neil - Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:21 pm
I just can't wait to eventually get playing this, it looks incredible so far! And yeah, one of the best games ever, and one of my all-time faves. Will we be able to do all the trick jumping usually associated with Quakes?
#88161 - tepples - Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:49 pm
Trick jumping reminded me of something I'd like to see if and when this comes to fruition. Imagine a mod where the characters are anthromorphic rabbits or hares and all the levels are designed around bunny hopping.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#88162 - Darkflame - Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:05 pm
theres no hope for the gbamp then is there?
_________________
Darkflames Reviews --
Make your own at;
Rateoholic:Reviews for anything, by anyone.
#88191 - The_Mayor87 - Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:10 am
Lazy1 wrote: |
Still funny how the DS gets quake before doom, I never saw that one coming. |
agreed. is there any particular reason it hasn't yet? the GP32 (which also uses an ARM processor) has this, a port of PrBoom. i found the source. if the author doesn't mind us using it, i wonder how hard it would be to get it running on the DS. processor doesnt seem to be a problem, as the latest version (v9) allows you to set the clock speed as low as 40mhz. i'd be willing to do it myself, but i've just recently got into DS programming and don't yet know enough to get it running on DS hardware.
sorry for the derail, nice job on quake, looks great!
#88360 - Neil - Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:44 am
I found this site for DoomDS last night.
That site wrote: |
Doom DS is an unofficial fan made game for the Nintendo DS console.
DoomDS will be visually on par with Doom64, but will feature 3D weapons and items.
The reason for converting these models is mainly to improve animations and lighting, the enemies however will remain as sprites to allow large number's on screen at once.
There is a good chance that the missing enemies from Doom64 will return, possibly with the updated look that was never seen too, but no promises. |
#88401 - HtheB - Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:25 am
Neil wrote: |
I found this site for DoomDS last night.
That site wrote: | Doom DS is an unofficial fan made game for the Nintendo DS console.
DoomDS will be visually on par with Doom64, but will feature 3D weapons and items.
The reason for converting these models is mainly to improve animations and lighting, the enemies however will remain as sprites to allow large number's on screen at once.
There is a good chance that the missing enemies from Doom64 will return, possibly with the updated look that was never seen too, but no promises. |
|
everybody knows that allready......
#88417 - Neil - Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:25 am
Well someone asked about Doom and I thought it appropriate to post it. I didn't know about it til the other night, so I doubt "everyone" knows about it.
#88465 - HtheB - Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:56 pm
Neil wrote: |
Well someone asked about Doom and I thought it appropriate to post it. I didn't know about it til the other night, so I doubt "everyone" knows about it. |
well.. there is no really game play at doom atm.. that is what he was trying to tell.. there was only a movie (you could only walk.. nothing more)
but you can play in quake ;)
#88600 - Dan2552 - Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:44 pm
this doesn't use GBFS by any chance does it? I hope not..
#88613 - tepples - Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:27 pm
Do you mean "use GBFS" or do you mean "use appended GBFS"? True, appending was the main motivation behind my development of GBFS, but it's possible for a program to use a GBFS file without appending it. I can see cases for using a bin2s'd GBFS file (common for fonts and the like) or loading a GBFS file into RAM. Only appended GBFS interferes with GBAMP v2 CF compatibility.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#88655 - yackom - Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:18 pm
Dan2552 wrote: |
this doesn't use GBFS by any chance does it? I hope not.. |
tepples wrote: |
Do you mean "use GBFS" or do you mean "use appended GBFS"? True, appending was the main motivation behind my development of GBFS, but it's possible for a program to use a GBFS file without appending it. I can see cases for using a bin2s'd GBFS file (common for fonts and the like) or loading a GBFS file into RAM. Only appended GBFS interferes with GBAMP v2 CF compatibility. |
Well I do use an appended file system, but initially one of my own. I later used GBFS in an attempt to get dualis to run Quake because it apparently supports that one somehow and not the one I made. Sure dualis now finds the files, but dualis doesn't have graphics emulated well enough to display Quake. It was a rather useless effort.
#88664 - yackom - Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:09 pm
Is Half-life on the DS a possibility?
I very seriously doubt it unless it was severely butchered.
Ok sure it was based off of the Quake 1 engine, but there is much more than an engine to a game. Quake 1 was released with the system requirements of 8MB of ram, Half-life if memory serves was 24 required, and 32 recommended and for that matter 16 required and 32 recommended for Quake 2. So that should be an indication of the media strain from that generation of games.
Even though Half-Life was made with the Quake 1 engine, it and Quake 2 are generation ahead of Quake 1. They both had higher ploy count, more complex and larger levels and many more improvements.
Quake 1 and 2 made their way to the Nintendo 64 Quake 1?s levels were reduced and simplified and Quake 2 had entirely a whole new map set so it could run on the N64. I think the same would have to be for Half-Life on the DS.
Half-Life on the PSP could be done, but I would image the controls would be terrible.
#88678 - tepples - Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:08 pm
yackom wrote: |
Is Half-life on the DS a possibility?
I very seriously doubt it unless it was severely butchered. |
End users will accept butchered. Just look at the GBA ports of Tony Hawk.
Quote: |
Half-life if memory serves was 24 [megabytes of RAM] required |
Three differences: - Windows itself probably took 8 MB. The only operating system on the DS is libnds and Chishm's FAT driver (if homebrew) or libnitro (if official).
- The textures are bigger on a PC.
- The disk on a PC has a larger seek time than a CompactFlash card or DS Game Card, which means more stuff needs to be kept in the PC's RAM to avoid texture popup.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#88680 - Lazy1 - Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:14 pm
I looked at porting half-life to other systems, the idea was to modify the quake 1 engine and add support for their model format, textures, ect. and use the HLSDK for the game logic.
Problem is, you cannot use any HLSDK code for anything but Half-Life.
I tried porting some entities to QuakeC, but for things like multi_managers and trigger_multiple it was simply too limited.
Back on topic...
Will this port require a flashcart?
Compatibility with CF/SD devices is fairly high and it's pretty similar to the standard fopen, fclose, ect...
The only thing you need to do is call FAT_InitFiles before any I/O operations.