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LemProject: Open-source Lemmings for the DS, original levels, level editor (and maybe some other stuff too).

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Latest news:

June 20th 2007:

Lemmings v7 Full has been released! HUZZAH FOR ALL! ^_^

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Controls:

Here's the controls:

The default style is called 'Tapper style'. 'Tapper style' is the closest to the original Amiga Lemmings control style: use the stylus to tap a lemming, and the tool will be assigned instantly.

There are two 'Tapper style' preferences, 'Hold' and 'Toggle'. These refer to the shoulder button pause command:
Hold means the game is paused while you hold either shoulder button. While holding one shoulder button, you can tap the other button to advance the game by a single frame.

Conversely, Toggle means you toggle pause with the shoulder buttons.

The second style is call 'Holder style'. In 'Holder style', you can hold the stylus against the screen to pause the game temporarily. Holding the stylus against a lemming cause that lemming to be highlighted. While a lemming is highlighted, tap any shoulder button to assign the current tool. This style can be useful if you are trying to pick a single lemming from a large group.

The final style is called 'Tactics Style'. 'Tactics style' is basically a reversal of the original Lemmings style. You must click on the lemming <i>first<i>, and then the tool you want to assign.

'Tactics style' offers the same 'Hold' and 'Toggle' preferences as 'Tapper style'.

Use the directional pad or XYBA to move the camera in any control style. Hold the Start button or hold the stylus against the Fast Forward button to increase the game speed. You can use Fast Forward while the game is paused. (The game will stay paused once you release the Start button)

Zoom in and out using the zoom controls in the lower left corner of the touchscreen.

Shutting the DS? lid will pause the game.

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May 30th 2007:

I've done a whole load more stuff to Lemmings... alternative ways of doing stuff that should be more R4 friendly: copy everything in here to the root of your card (don't forget to patch it, too), and see what happens. (New version! Works on R4! Possibly! Really this time!)

Yeah, it still takes half a minute to start up and to begin a level. (Enumerating levels and stuff)

I took out all the .xms except one to speed things up a bit. If you want to put them back, use the xm's from the rar in the post below.

The final version of this will boot and load levels instantly. (It's debugging stuff that slows it down.)

There are only a couple of test levels in this version to test traps and hazards. Levels made with LemmingsDSBuilder -will not work- on this version. This version is just to test these levels for now.

Thanks to Dave2 for putting up with a barrage of nds tests! :D

May 16th 2007:

Alrighty! Here's a DLDI alpha version for y'all!

Unrar that into the root of your card, and update the config file if you don't like the 'LemmingsDS' directory.

It works on my Supercard SD, and that's currently all I know. :(

Give the levels that are there a shot... the level system works a bit differently now:

There are two level categories, Standard and Custom. When the game starts, it'll take a minute (it won't take this long in a non-debug version ^_^) to cycle through the directories in /LemmingsDS/levels/1player/standard and custom and tries to identify all the levels it can find. It groups them together based on the directories they're in... (you'll know what I'm talking about if you give it a go.)

The level format for this version is different to the old one, so old levels won't work. (If you try and copy them into the directories, they should be ignored by Lemmings DS.) I'll get to making a convertor when I've figured out what needs to be in the new format.

If anything weird happens, post about it and include the debugout.txt which magically appears in the root. :)

Edit - As with all homebrew, back up before you run this! I don't take responsibility if this makes your flash cards go funny. (It hasn't done anything weird to my SCSD stuff in these last months, but I can't guarantee behaviour on other devices, 'cause SCSD is all I got.)

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Dec 26th 2006:

Nope, I'm not asking for programmers. It's finished. Go get it.

[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]

Download the files, and slap 'em on your Supercard. (Or whatever SLOT-2 device you've got handy.)

Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot of levels for the game. If you can, give the level editor Lemmings DS Builder a whirl, and try to come up with some cool levels. :)
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Last edited by MrD on Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:07 pm; edited 19 times in total

Perhaps i won't start my version of lemminsds as it isn't needed.
I hope you get around to using the original levels. There are a few docs floating about on the net, with details of the level formats for different versions, i think the msdos level info is easyest to find (perhaps just code a converter from the origional levels to yours format.)
Great work all the same, I for one will keep my eye on any futer updates.

(this took an absolute age to type with a Wii and an onscreen keyboard, i'm going back to my pc.)
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I don't know if the original levels could be converted... Lemmings DS levels are designed around a similar philosophy, but there's subtle differences that would have to be taken into account. (Lemmings levels are a series of stamps placed one on top of the other. Lemmings DS levels are a series of textured rectangles one on top of the other.)

You could write a converter that makes a level from an original Lemmings level where the graphics from one of the Lemmings level styles (such as the Earth & Rock style from Fun 1 and Tricky 1) are embedded into the level file, and all of the stamps are recreated as Lemmings DS texture areas... Hmm...

I don't really know enough about the original Lemmings format to do that though :/

And don't stop making! Make make! Make it into something else if you have to! :)
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Last edited by MrD on Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

I've just tried this on my m3sd, using the raw binary download. It works, but I get something like this on the level select screen:

Level 1 Rating Funk
Level 1 Wait... A doddle?
Well, hey. It -looks- safe!
ERROR - Canonisation Failed
ERROR - Canonisation Failed
ERROR - Canonisation Failed
ERROR - Canonisation Failed
ERROR - Canonisation Failed

All the rest of the levels have the text ERROR - Canonisation Failed. If I select this level, the preview graphic for the level is the text 'error' in red characters. I can even select this 'level' and it plays briefly before locking up.

On the main screen it says I've got 120 standard one player levels and 0 custom one player levels.

That aside, what I've seen so far is really impressive. Keep up the good work!

Adam

Yeah... that's a side effect of not having any main sequence levels. I've covered it here in the mrd.net forum:

Matt wrote:

This message means that when the ROM was compiled, there were holes in the level lists. (The level lists go from level1a.lds to level30a.lds (that's Funk difficulty), to level1d.lds to level30d.lds (that's Hardcore difficulty))

Any missing files are filled with failsafe.lds (the makefile takes care of this), and that level has the title Error: Canonisation Failed.

Just ignore the canonisation stuff for now, and make a ROM with your own levels and use the custom level menu. :)

There is a simple, logical reason why it locks up after a few seconds on the 'error' level. For 500 Trivia Points, can you guess what that reason is? (You only get 200 Trivia Points if you figure it out by looking at the source code.)
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Another suggestion: Touch an area of the screen to zoom in on the creatures in it. Then drag and drop skills to individual creatures.

(I say "creatures" because "lemmings" is PSP exclusive.)
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-- Who?
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I knew you'd say that, tepples. :P

(It's also out on the PS2, PS3 and PS2: Eyetoy, afaik. ;) )

I don't know how reliable a drag-and-drop system would be, given the way the guys are nearly always bunched up together, coupled with current state of touchscreen know-how. (It's ace, yeah, but...)
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GBA MP comes up with super jumbled graphics.. :/
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WMB just displays black screens. Appended file systems don't work on GBAMP, WMB, slot 2 devices with no RAM and slot 1 devices.

It works on M3CF. Nice job. It has sound effects and music. It would be nice if fast forward was faster. I would also like to be able to restart a level instantly rather than having to waiting for all the Lemmings to explode.

It won't compile with DKP 19b, at least not out of the box.
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Sektor wrote:

WMB just displays black screens. Appended file systems don't work on GBAMP, WMB, slot 2 devices with no RAM and slot 1 devices.

It works on M3CF. Nice job. It has sound effects and music. It would be nice if fast forward was faster. I would also like to be able to restart a level instantly rather than having to waiting for all the Lemmings to explode.

It won't compile with DKP 19b, at least not out of the box.

For an All New World of Lemmings type restart: hit SELECT three times in a row.

Fast forward runs the game as fast as the game can run. (You can optimise and rewrite my DS_SPRITE exrot background sprite blitter if you like. :P)

I believe it wont work with DKP >=19 as that's when the EABI format was introduced. The need for a specific version of DKP is due to 0xtob's NitroTracker player core living in the ARM7 (plus I never really saw any need to upgrade... ._.), and I'm afraid I wouldn't know the specifics of why this is the case, or how you'd change it.
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Nice work :-)

You should change the thread title. I almost ignored it because I through it was for an unreleased project...

Anyway, good work overall :-)

EDIT: I added the "should" in the 2nd paragraph. Bah. I hate typing too fast :-) Sorry if I came across as giving orders ;-)
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Last edited by OOPMan on Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

Cheers. :)

I've changed the thread title now.
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Sektor wrote:

WMB just displays black screens. Appended file systems don't work on GBAMP, WMB, slot 2 devices with no RAM and slot 1 devices.

Heh.. sooo... what's left? :) j/k
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MrD wrote:

There is a simple, logical reason why it locks up after a few seconds on the 'error' level. For 500 Trivia Points, can you guess what that reason is? (You only get 200 Trivia Points if you figure it out by looking at the source code.)

Er...

Guessing it's because there's no Lemming dropper...

Haven't looked at the source though, so I can't be sure...
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You can find my NDS homebrew projects here...

Last edited by OOPMan on Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

tepples wrote:

Another suggestion: Touch an area of the screen to zoom in on the creatures in it. Then drag and drop skills to individual creatures.

(I say "creatures" because "lemmings" is PSP exclusive.)

I think a lemmings-like game with chickens as the characters would be pretty cool!

I fixed the music bug... I missed the %= line from the command9 source file for the volume change command. :(
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Great work!
Even with the mere two levels, I found myself playing with this for ages.

Do you have plans to give this thing FAT support so levels can be stored outside of the NDS file?
(Would make the whole level creation / adding thing much more manageable).
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omg (thats oh my goodness!) this is an amazing clone, ive played other lemmings clones on PC that didnt keep the same gameplay at all, but im amazed at how well you pulled this off without a source code! the level editor is awesome too, but it would be really nice for someone to write a converter for the old lemmings levels... or at least someone go hard to work at creating those 120 levels :)
PS please everyone make levels and post them on his forums! im working on a submission right now...

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_main_dat.txt
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_lvl_file_format.txt
i was planning to clone it for gba. But in the end there was no time; maybe in summer. somebody ripped the terrain gfx for me, too.

Fantastic port :)

Bring on the mappacks :)

Adding libfat support is uberly important but you know.. in time
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Ant6n wrote:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_main_dat.txt
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_lvl_file_format.txt
i was planning to clone it for gba. But in the end there was no time; maybe in summer. somebody ripped the terrain gfx for me, too.

Ack... a level converter would be a lot of work, Believe me.

Libfat is hard because of the way I access the graphics. Having everything only a void pointer away really really helps.
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how did you get the game exact game rules (i.e. how many pixels below lemming before he falls, when does he dig and when not, how fast do they walk etc..)?

the above documents give lotsa helpful data, like how many frames each animation is, and stuff like that. Im sure theres more documentation around...

Ant6n wrote:

how did you get the game exact game rules (i.e. how many pixels below lemming before he falls, when does he dig and when not, how fast do they walk etc..)?

I recorded myself playing the game and stepped through it frame by frame.
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MrD wrote:

Ant6n wrote:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_main_dat.txt
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_lvl_file_format.txt
i was planning to clone it for gba. But in the end there was no time; maybe in summer. somebody ripped the terrain gfx for me, too.

Ack... a level converter would be a lot of work, Believe me.

Libfat is hard because of the way I access the graphics. Having everything only a void pointer away really really helps.

Possible solution: Load entire level into RAM, then you can use random mem access again via pointer. You'd only need minor changes to your level loading code, the rest of your game code would be unchanged.

What RAM? I don't know how much of the stuff I have available, y'see. I don't know if I've left enough, what with the samples attached to ARM9 (to prevent some strange behaviour grabbing sounds from cart), song loading and level holding... :|
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MrD wrote:

What RAM? I don't know how much of the stuff I have available, y'see. I don't know if I've left enough, what with the samples attached to ARM9 (to prevent some strange behaviour grabbing sounds from cart), song loading and level holding... :|

Assuming you are using devkitpro, malloc and so forth, this might work. It is what I do in NDS Python to calculate how much memory is left for debugging purposes:

Code:

static PyObject *
nds_meminfo(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
/* Next line taken from the newlib patches.. */
extern char end asm ("end"); /* Defined by the linker. */
struct mallinfo m = mallinfo();
unsigned int heapSize = (unsigned int)fake_heap_end - (unsigned int)&end;

printf("Heap:\n");
printf(" start %x\n", (unsigned int)&end);
printf(" end %x\n", (unsigned int)fake_heap_end);
printf(" size (system) %d\n", heapSize);
printf(" size (malloc) %d\n", m.arena);
printf(" usage (malloc) %2d%% (%d)\n", (100 * m.uordblks)/m.arena, m.uordblks);
printf(" usage (system) %2d%%\n", (100 * m.uordblks)/heapSize);

...
}

heapSize is the total amount of heap space set aside in memory.
arena is the size of the pool which the allocation system has set aside to currently allocate from.
uordblks is how much memory is currently allocated.

So in theory you can go allocatable bytes = heapSize - m.uordblks.

You can see a screenshot of this code running on the NDS Python web site.

notice how a map is static, so its basicly a big struct.
did you write down the level rules?

I'm sorry, Ant6n, I don't know what you mean.
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I mean you can define one level with one big struct, like this:

Code:

#ifndef LEMMINGLVL_H_
#define LEMMINGLVL_H_

/* integer types */
typedef unsigned int u32;
typedef unsigned short u16;
typedef unsigned char u8;

typedef signed int s32;
typedef signed short s16;
typedef signed char s8;

/* http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/docs/lemmings_lvl_file_format.txt
* LEMMINGS .LVL FILE FORMAT, BY rt
*
* struct-ured by ant6n, untested
*/

//Definitions of objects,terrain,steel and level
//==OBJECTS===============================================================
typedef struct{
s16 xpos;
   //x pos : min 0xFFF8, max 0x0638. 0xFFF8 = -24, 0x0001 = -16, 0x0008 = -8
   // 0x0010 = 0, 0x0018 = 8, ... , 0x0638 = 1576
   // note: should be multiples of 8
s16 ypos;
   //y pos : min 0xFFD7, max 0x009F. 0xFFD7 = -41, 0xFFF8 = -8, 0xFFFF = -1
   // 0x0000 = 0, ... , 0x009F = 159.
   // note: can be any value in the specified range
u16 id;
   //obj id : min 0x0000, max 0x000F. the object id is different in each
   // graphics set, however 0x0000 is always an exit and 0x0001 is
   // always a start.
   // note: see appendix a for full object listings
u8 override;
u8 vflip;
   //modifier : first byte can be 80 (do not overwrite existing terrain) or 40
   //    (must have terrain underneath to be visible). 00 specifies always
   //    draw full graphic.
   //    second byte can be 8F (display graphic upside-down) or 0F (display
      //    graphic normally)
} Lvlobj;

//==TERRAIN===============================================================
typedef struct{
unsigned xpos    :12;
unsigned control :4;
   //x pos : min 0x0000, max 0x063F. 0x0000 = -16, 0x0008 = -8, 0x0010 = 0,
   // 0x063f = 1583.
   // note: the xpos also contains modifiers. the first nibble can be
   // 8 (do no overwrite existing terrain), 4 (display upside-down), or
   // 2 (remove terrain instead of add it). you can add them together.
   // 0 indicates normal.
   // eg: 0xC011 means draw at xpos=1, do not overwirte, upside-down.
unsigned ypos;    :9;
   //y pos : 9-bit value. min 0xEF0, max 0x518. 0xEF0 = -38, 0xEF8 = -37,
   // 0x020 = 0, 0x028 = 1, 0x030 = 2, 0x038 = 3, ... , 0x518 = 159
   // note: the ypos value bleeds into the next value since it is 9bits.
unsigned terrainid; 7:
   //terrain id: min 0x00, max 0x3F. not all graphic sets have all 64 graphics.

//==STEEL AREAS===============================================================
typedef struct{
unsigned xpos    :9;
   //x pos : 9-bit value. min 0x000, max 0xC78. 0x000 = -16, 0x008 = -12,
   // 0x010 = -8, 0x018 = -4, ... , 0xC78 = 1580.
   // note: each hex value represents 4 pixels. since it is 9 bit value it
   //    bleeds into the next attribute.
unsigned ypos    :7;
   //y pos : min 0x00, max 0x27. 0x00 = 0, 0x01 = 4, 0x02 = 8, ... , 0x27 = 156
   // note: each hex value represents 4 pixels
unsigned width    :4;
unsigned height    :4;
   //area : min 0x00, max 0xFF. the first nibble is the x-size, from 0 - F.
   // each value represents 4 pixels. the second nibble is the y-size.
   // 0x00 = (4,4), 0x11 = (8,8), 0x7F = (32,64), 0x23 = (12,16)
unsigned       :8;
} Lvlsteel;
//eg: 00 9F 52 00 = put steel at (-12,124) width = 24, height = 12

//a lemmings .lvl file is 2048 bytes ( 0x0000 to 0x07FF )
//==LEVEL===============================================================
struct{
u16 releaseRate;
   //BYTES 0x0000 to 0x0001
   //Release Rate : 0x0000 is slowest, 0x00FA is fastest
u16 numLemmings;
   //BYTES 0x0002 to 0x0003
   //Num of lemmings : maximum 0x0072. 0x0010 would be 16 lemmings.
u16 numToRescue;
   //BYTES 0x0004 to 0x0005
   //Num to rescue : should be less than or equal to number of lemmings
u16 timeLimit;
   //BYTES 0x0006 to 0x0007
   //Time Limit : max 0x00FF, 0x0001 to 0x0009 works best
u16 skills[8];
   //BYTES 0x0008 to 0x0017 (2 bytes each, only lower byte is used)
   //Num of skills : max 0x00FA. order is Climber, Floater, Bomber,
   //       Blocker,Builder, Basher, Miner, Digger
u16 startxposition;
   //BYTES 0x0018 to 0x0019
   //Start screen xpos : 0x0000 to 0x04F0. is rounded to nearest multiple
   //       of 8.
u16 gfxset;
   //BYTES 0x001A to 0x001B
   //Normal Graphic Set: 0x0000 is dirt, 0x0001 is fire, 0x0002 is squasher,
   //       0x0003 is pillar,0x0004 is crystal, 0x0005 is brick,
   //       0x0006 is rock, 0x0007 is snow and 0x0008 is bubble.
u16 extendedgfxset;
   //BYTES 0x001C to 0x001D
   //Extended Graphic Set: Apparently ignored in windows version.
u16 fill0;
   //BYTES 0x001E to 0x001F
   //Something? : doesn't seem to matter what goes here. use 0x0000.

Lvlobj    objs[32];
   //BYTES 0x0020 to 0x011F (8 byte blocks)
   //Objects
   //each 8 byte block starting at byte 0x0020 represents an interactive object. there
   //can be a maximum of 32 objects. write 0x00 to fill bytes up to 0x0120 if
   //there are less than 32 objects.
Lvlterrain terrain[400];
   //BYTES 0x0120 to 0x075F (4 byte blocks)
   //Terrain
   //each 4 byte block starting at byte 0x0120 represents a terrain object.
   //there can be a maximum of 400 terrain objects. write 0xFF fill the bytes
   //up to byte 0x0760 if need be.
Lvlsteel steel[32];
   //BYTES 0x0760 to 0x07DF (4 byte blocks)
   //steel areas (Lemming cant bash through
   //each 4 byte block starting at byte 0x0760 represents a steel area which
   //the lemmings cannot bash through. the first three bytes are given above,
   //and the last byte is always 00.. what a waste of space considering how
   //compact they made the first 3 bytes! write 0x00 to fill each byte up to
   //0x07E0 if need be.

char name[32];
   //BYTES 0x07E0 to 0x07FF
   //a character string 32 bytes long. write 0x20 (space) to fill up the empty
   //bytes.
} Lemminglevel;
#endif /*LEMMINGLVL_H_*/

I.e. you can keep one of these structs in ram, copy the .lvl there, and then load from there, which should make things easier. When I was was sort of planning out lemming for gba, i was thinking that the gfx could be load from rom/ram (whatever the fat libs give me), and could load the lvl from the card.
this code above is totally untested, just quickly cooked up, and there could be some problems due to endianness.

ant6n

I see what you mean now, yeah... Hmm...

This doesn't affect your idea, but note that LemmingsDS doesn't use the same map format as the 2k Windows Lemmings levels. (Lemmings DS levels go from about 20k to 230k)
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All seems quiet on the LemmingsDS front - didn't anyone manage to find a way to import the existing levels? :)

Well theres a guy on the forums at mr dictionary's place whos been ripped levels 1-10 so far, i think he used winlemmings and took a screenshot and imported it into the editor. Keep in mind you have to register to download files on the forums.

Nice, thanks. A shame he is having to build them from scratch though and that someone can't figure out a way to automatically create them from the original file format. Would make life a lot easier. :)

Hey there! Yup, I'm not dead. :P

I'm working on a new way to store the textures, levels and lemmings GFX, and breaking compatibility with GBA Flashcarts (NNNNGGG)... It'll take a while, but it's working.

As for my WIP level-converter? You... still haven't downloaded that yet?
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Nice to see you're stil around? :)

WIP level converter? Where?

MrD: Can we expect an update with the r20 modifications wintermute has made and an updated level editor soon?

Maybe even mappack release with afew demo levels.

I'll be happy to work on maps if I know they going to be compatible with the current/future releases.
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MrD wrote:

Hey there! Yup, I'm not dead. :P

I'm working on a new way to store the textures, levels and lemmings GFX, and breaking compatibility with GBA Flashcarts (NNNNGGG)... It'll take a while, but it's working.

As for my WIP level-converter? You... still haven't downloaded that yet?

is that the "believe" thing? i've got a windows install of lemmings sitting right in front of me..

EDIT: oh wow. believe magic indeed. (though it'd be nice if it could pick up on bottomless pits or difficulty ratings!)

ethoscapade wrote:

MrD wrote:

Hey there! Yup, I'm not dead. :P

I'm working on a new way to store the textures, levels and lemmings GFX, and breaking compatibility with GBA Flashcarts (NNNNGGG)... It'll take a while, but it's working.

As for my WIP level-converter? You... still haven't downloaded that yet?

is that the "believe" thing? i've got a windows install of lemmings sitting right in front of me..

EDIT: oh wow. believe magic indeed. (though it'd be nice if it could pick up on bottomless pits or difficulty ratings!)

Difficulty ratings aren't stored in the level file, as far as I know. This'll have to be a manual thing.

Use N flag (Believe <level> N or Believe Magic N) to get exported level names.

The new Believe is much, much uberer though.
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I have a completed a DLDI port of LemmingsDS 3.2. More complete post is on the LemmingsDS forums here. You can grab the rom itself from here, but follow the link to the forum post for more detialed instructions.

Ah, excellent :) This will work much nicer.

It runs well for me on Supercard CF. (After applying the DLDI patch, of course).

Currently there are just two canon levels available, right? (The others are just stand-ins?)
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Awesome thanks mate!

So... anybody up for testing a new version of Lemmings DS? (Now with all manner of DLDI goodnesses!)

I'm looking for a hardy volunteer with a Supercard CF, or any other Slot 2 card that can run GBA games and DLDI.
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I'm down! I've got a Supercard: miniSD.
(yay DLDI!) Go ahead and PM me if interested.
In fact I've got a resume:
Tester - QuakeDS
:P

Last edited by Dood77 on Tue May 15, 2007 11:06 pm; edited 2 times in total

me too!

(Supercard SD)

Very nice ! Keep up the good work :) Lemmings was one of my favourite game.
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MrD wrote:

So... anybody up for testing a new version of Lemmings DS? (Now with all manner of DLDI goodnesses!)

I'm looking for a hardy volunteer with a Supercard CF, or any other Slot 2 card that can run GBA games and DLDI.

I have an R4 and an EZ4 to test on.

Groovy!

When I wrote the post, I had a semi GBFS mangled version I was gonna post... but I think I've got this full DLDI version working now. ^_^

I've edited the first post in this thread and added a link to the full DLDI version. Give it a go!
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(As mentioned on IRC) I can't get it to work with my R4 - white screen, however long I leave it :(

Anybody else?
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As mentioned on IRC, everything working as expected with my trusty SuperCard CF.
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dualscreenman wrote:

What about Gaim DS? Gaim pretty much has support for all IM programs.

tepples wrote:

"Goshdammit, the DS is not a Gaim-boy! It's a third pillar!"

Doesn't boot up on my m3 :(

Black screen, copied and patched, patched and copied, patched and copied with M3 game manager, patched and copied with M3 game manager and patched, start with start, start with a...

Can't get it to load at all.

Works on my M3SD after DLDI patching. Took ages to start up but I left it for a while and came back and the title screen was showing. I thought it was hanging on startup but I noticed the debugout.txt file in the root. :)

Looks and plays really nice. Good to see some of the older levels again. Did notice some white marks, lines that look like interference when scrolling the bottom screen around with the D pad or using the speed up button.

Thanks for the tip about the slow startup, it works for me now as well.

Nice improvements to lemmingsDS MrD. The expanded level set is nice, and it's so much easier to add more now. I love the thought you've put into the controls, this is easily the best non-pc lemmings port. With pause-mode I don't even need to use the zoom function. Are you going to add a score function? That should be the next step once dldi has been well tested.

Excellent release :)

I've been playing this all week.. classic
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Don't work on my M3 Simply what ever i try to do after patching. hope you'll find the bug as the precedent DLDI version works flawlessly for me.

Works great on my EZFlash V! Initial startup was quite fast too, about 20 seconds. I'm using a USModular microSD card, but it's the same as the Japanese Kingstons (rebranded Toshiba).

Nothing new here, works on M3 Lite, doesn't work on M3 Simply.
Say, is it possible that Believing in the latest build doesn't work?
As in... it won't find the levels.
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Believe on the website is V3, but this version of Lemmings DS takes V5 levels, which are totally different.

The levels that come with this alpha build are made with a V5 of Believe. (which isn't on the website) There's no public V5 level editor yet, because I'm changing everything again for V6 to get traps working.
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It boots fine for me on my supercard sd but the touch screen is unresponsive making it impossible to start the game. I had an earlier version working but it was quite difficult to assign tasks to the lemmings(i had to rapidly tap to select).
I am using ds lite with screen protectors and have calibrated the touchscreen and tested with other homebrew
DLDI patched of course

Thanks for all you efforts

Same, getting white screens on my R4. I let it sit for a few minutes.

Contents of the debugout.txt file:

FAT enabled.
?F?"? ?F*@F@?!??F)@

But wait, there's more! Check the first page of the thread for details.

(I'm still working on R4 support, though.)
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any word on lemmings ds for a guy with an r4ds?or maybe.. anyone patch the dldi version for the r4? is it easy to get running on an r4 now? it's not that i'm lazy, it's that i'm still kind of new to the homebrew/ds scene. =)

i used to play that game back in the day on my c=amiga.. that and i also mentioned a game somewhere else on this forum that i'd love to see defender of the crown by cinemaware on the ds! that'd be cool.

*sigh*

i miss those days..

=(
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This version doesn't work on the R4 yet (though at least debugging output is generated with the latest one).

avid wrote:

any word on lemmings ds for a guy with an r4ds?or maybe.. anyone patch the dldi version for the r4? is it easy to get running on an r4 now? it's not that i'm lazy, it's that i'm still kind of new to the homebrew/ds scene. =)

R4?

Oh all right then, check the first post again. :P
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And the latest build does indeed work on R4! Hooray! Load time is somewhere between 1 and 2 mins.

MrD wrote:

avid wrote:

any word on lemmings ds for a guy with an r4ds?or maybe.. anyone patch the dldi version for the r4? is it easy to get running on an r4 now? it's not that i'm lazy, it's that i'm still kind of new to the homebrew/ds scene. =)

R4?

Oh all right then, check the first post again. :P

i apologise, it's not normally like me to not read a whole thread before i start asking questions.. but then again maybe iot is. either way, i'm sorry.

thanks guys.
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It's okay. :D

I just fixed R4 when you posted just then. ;)
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hey there.. i ended up dl'in all the files and putting them in the /LemDS folder like you said and it worked perfectly! it ran great as well.. this is an awesome game thnaks for bringing it to the ds..

you say you have fixed the r4? is there another file i should grab in addition to or instead of the ones i have?

also, if you still need help testing, or whatever, i'd be glad to help.. i'm already thinking of taking the music xm's and remixing them.. take the 80's out and add a little new millenium flavour hehe.. time is an issue but it'd be fun..
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Quote:

hey there.. i ended up dl'in all the files and putting them in the /LemDS folder like you said and it worked perfectly! it ran great as well.. this is an awesome game thnaks for bringing it to the ds..

you say you have fixed the r4? is there another file i should grab in addition to or instead of the ones i have?

If you downloaded the file 2007_05_30_v07_test_b_LemmingsDS_Alpha_DLDI.rar, then with any luck it should work with any of the devices on this page (provided it has both read and write access) if you follow the standard DLDI process. :)
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nope that wasn't the file i grabbed.. none the less i've grabbed it now..

thanks again.
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Code:

Beginning new debug session:
FAT enabled.

I have a R4 and I get two white screens permanently. I waited like 3 minutes. I have the latest firmware. 1.09.

It's in my root directory, I put the 1.08 firmware on it to test it as well and it did not work either.

Is that with 2007_05_30_v07_test_b_LemmingsDS_Alpha_DLDI.rar?
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2007_05_30_v07_test_LemmingsDS_Alpha_DLDI.rar

Yup

I replaced it a second time to be sure and DLDI'ed it again.

edit: also I have an Original DS not a DS Lite.

I have an r4 with v1.08 firmware and a ds lite and all I get is two white screens with this new version.

Now that I come to think about it, I've not yet tested with this archive - only with the special .nds files provided on IRC. I shall test with this archive when I return from shopping.

OK, I've now tested with this archive, and it works fine - takes about 20 seconds to load.

i have an r4 v1.08 on a ndsl and it works fine..?

odd..

the dldi patched successfully for u?
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Yeah, I suppose I should give further details - R4, version 1.09, flashme v8a, DS Lite.

I don't have a flashme...

Flashme is software... and free.
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Dave2 wrote:

OK, I've now tested with this archive, and it works fine - takes about 20 seconds to load.

The _b_ archive is identical to the first '30th May' one but with the .nds replaced with the working one you tested for me. :)
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I was assuming it'd be that, but I thought it would be best to start fresh and just make sure that it does work.

Dood77 wrote:

Flashme is software... and free.

I've never heard of it I thought you needed a special cartridge to use it.

mankind wrote:

Dood77 wrote:

Flashme is software... and free.

I've never heard of it I thought you needed a special cartridge to use it.

Nope ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlashMe
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Sounds like all is well under R4 in this new version. Excellent..... >:)
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So are you suggesting that FlashMe is required, even though all other R4 homebrew doesn't need it? I'm not flashing mine. Someone posted a version of your game on your Mr.D forums a few weeks back that was DLDI compatible, and didn't need flashed firmware.

Nobody's saying it needs FlashMe. I would find that to be highly unlikely. I just provided my full specs in case one variable was changing something, and there were enough negatives to find a connection.

Are you sure you're using the specific R4 build? That is, http://www.mrdictionary.net/lemmings/releases/final/2007_05_30_v07_test_b_LemmingsDS_Alpha_DLDI.rar .I'd find that to be a far more likely cause of the problem than any hardware/firmware differences.

[EDIT]I just re-read your post and it looks like you were using the older build. Use the one I've linked.[/EDIT]

Fixed, That version works :)
I got the same white screens as the first version, when I didn't DLDI.

But I did it and it works. Great job :)

Great job, mines working now. I don't know why it wouldn't before, I'm pretty sure I dldi'd it, but that might have been the issue.
Working perfectly on r4 1.08, ndsl.

Good work! Tested it with my M3 Simply DS FW 1.05 and it works perfectly! :) Great job!

Added the old XMs of v5 so it loaded 30~40 seconds until the title screen appears. Works great! Awesome!

Tried to add the level files of v5 but they weren't recognized by the game. Where do I get level files for v07?

Clearly off topic, but a while back you made some changes to libntxm for this project... do you still have the source, and if so could you toss me a copy? I've been trying to implement more or less the same thing with little luck.
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FireSlash wrote:

Clearly off topic, but a while back you made some changes to libntxm for this project... do you still have the source, and if so could you toss me a copy? I've been trying to implement more or less the same thing with little luck.

Hmm... back when I started this project (14 months ago, ACK!) libntxm didn't exist as a discrete library; I was using 0xtob's groovy NitroTracker player core code mashed up into my source tree. I made some minor edits to allow for one-shot sound playback, and module playback volume settings.

All of the changes I made to the NT core code are in the Lemmings v3.2 source download at the LemProject site. I haven't touched any of that code between then and the latest version.

If you want the code updates to work with libntxm seperately, then you should download the customised libntxm source by litghost. (May still be available in the libntxm thread if sendspace hasn't deleted it yet.)

Quote:

Where do I get level files for v07?

They're not available yet. I haven't finalised the level file format, so any levels you could make could EXPLODE AND BECOME USELESS at any moment, so I'm not releasing more levels or the editor or the convertor yet.
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Works wonderfully, thanks :)

Will there be original levels from the amiga/pc version, or perhaps a converter to convert the levels ourselves?
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spinal_cord wrote:

Will there be original levels from the amiga/pc version, or perhaps a converter to convert the levels ourselves?

I'm not 100% sure this is what you're looking for, but look under the documentation and notes part of Lemming's homepage

Flyfishing wrote:

spinal_cord wrote:

Will there be original levels from the amiga/pc version, or perhaps a converter to convert the levels ourselves?

I'm not 100% sure this is what you're looking for, but look under the documentation and notes part of Lemming's homepage

"I'm working on it" ;)
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Flyfishing - I'm asking if we will see the original levels that we all love to play from the old Amiga/PC version of lemmings.

MrD - Cool.
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spinal_cord wrote:

Flyfishing - I'm asking if we will see the original levels that we all love to play from the old Amiga/PC version of lemmings.

Doesn't Sony own exclusive rights in those levels?
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yes, but many of us have win95 installs of lemmings, and a program can be designed to convert those.

ethoscapade wrote:

yes, but many of us have win95 installs of lemmings, and a program can be designed to convert those.

Do you know the format of these level files?
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You mean this one, tepples?
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there are plenty of sites with info on both the windows and dos versions of the levels. I recently found a website with a whole bunch of custom level sets, I wont link to it as it has downloads for most versions of the games. The levels are amiga ones, I don't know if the format is the same or not.
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They are.
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I've got to apologise to you, tepples.

You've asked me similar questions before on gbadev and Slashdot, and I keep Skip-Boing them...

The truth is, I don't really have any answers for you. I guess we'll see after tomorrow.
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Is there a way to convert levels, or is it something only you can do?
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Last edited by spinal_cord on Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

There's a program in the Lemmings DS Tools Suite archive called lemmings_amigalemm_to_lds that converts Amiga/Windows Lemmings 2kbyte .LVL files into Lemmings DS .LDS files using the texture archives and graphical objects... it's there with the source also.

It's a bit fiddly to use, but if you look at the batch files and such in there, you'll see what happens and how it all comes together. Check here for info.
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Just tried it on my Supercard SD/DS Phat. Downloaded and patched with DLDI and tried to boot. It came back with an error message that it couldn't find files (I did extract the folders correctly). I redownloaded it and didn't patch it and it worked fine.

I find it mildly fiddly to click the right lemming (a bit of fuzzy logic or something here), and on most other versions you can hover the mouse over a lemming to see what abilities they have (climber, floater etc). But apart from that it's absolutely perfect.

Well done!

sonny_jim wrote:

I find it mildly fiddly to click the right lemming (a bit of fuzzy logic or something here), and on most other versions you can hover the mouse over a lemming to see what abilities they have (climber, floater etc).

That feature would be most welcome - perhaps easy to implement too if you simply press a button then press on the relevant lemming with the stylus. :)

sonny_jim wrote:

Just tried it on my Supercard SD/DS Phat. Downloaded and patched with DLDI and tried to boot. It came back with an error message that it couldn't find files (I did extract the folders correctly). I redownloaded it and didn't patch it and it worked fine.

I find it mildly fiddly to click the right lemming (a bit of fuzzy logic or something here), and on most other versions you can hover the mouse over a lemming to see what abilities they have (climber, floater etc). But apart from that it's absolutely perfect.

Well done!

That is... strange, about the supercard. I have a Supercard SD and a DS Phat (original launch imported release one ^_^), and the Lemmings available for download is actually patched for SCSD already. (So I can test it. :P)

If you're using an SCSD to play LemmingsDS, don't bother repatching it. :)

If you have trouble clicking, increase the sensitivity in the config.
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Just to clarify, it works fine unpatched on SCSD but if I try to patch it with dlditool and scsd.dldi from chism it starts but fails at loading data. This to me seems strange, is it only possible to DLDI patch a nds file once?

Apparently so - if it's already been patched then you don't need to re-patch it. :)

sonny_jim wrote:

Just to clarify, it works fine unpatched on SCSD but if I try to patch it with dlditool and scsd.dldi from chism it starts but fails at loading data. This to me seems strange, is it only possible to DLDI patch a nds file once?

You should be able to patch 'em over and over again.

What SCSD DLDI patch are you using? I usually get better results with the Moon one.
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Complete guess ahead:

It's likely that your card is already supported by the old pre-DLDI libfat but not the SCSD.dldi file. As many projects still include the pre-DLDI libfat, you're able to use it on the old code, but when you patch with the nonworking DLDI file, it takes priority. Like MrD said, try SCSD_moon.dldi, which is based off the Moonshell FAT code and usually has a higher chance of success for programs that don't require Supercard ejection and subsequent reinsertion.

mrd:

i've been following this project since the beginning, and i have to say, you've absolutely outdone yourself after already having released by far the most polished and well designed gba homebrew to date (BAA).

all told, as a professional, free, complete alternative to retail PSP software i'm not sure where you're sitting legally, but kudos, man. i'm blown away.

Yeah, I remember the Lemmings mockup thread almost two years ago... :)

Quote:

i've been following this project since the beginning, and i have to say, you've absolutely outdone yourself after already having released by far the most polished and well designed gba homebrew to date (BAA).

Hehehe, you're too kind! ^_^

Looking back at BAA, there's so much stuff that I really shouldn't have done... some parts of the code are just daft beyond reason... gah!
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ethoscapade wrote:

all told, as a professional, free, complete alternative to retail PSP software i'm not sure where you're sitting legally

Wherever he's sitting, I'm sitting too.
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hear, hear!

(tepples your final build of luminesweeper had such awful SFX and such unbelievably slow difficulty ramping - whether or not this was true to the original, it's hardly compelling enough to merit with or without flashing lights - that it was really a shame given how otherwise brilliant it was).

Would somebody mind trying out the new levels in the latest (v7.03) Lemmings DS download? :)
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Xmas Lemmings! My hero! Thanks VERY much! :)

Okay, only tried Xmas 1991 so far and a couple of things:

a) It's definitely slower than it should be (however, just tried Xmas 1992 and the speed is fine in that)
b) Where's the Christmassy music gone in Xmas 1991? The Amiga version has this excellent Xmas ditty playing away (it may have been a jazzed up version of Frosty the Snowman, I forget now). Music does play, it's not that, it's just that it's not the music that I remember.

Also, a suggestion - with all these levels it takes ages for them all to load on start-up, would it be possible to give some kind of animated feature to indicate that the DS hasn't locked up or, better still, a perceantage countdown to indicate how far along the loading progress is?

Great work, I'm VERY impressed. :-)

Liter wrote:

b) Where's the Christmassy music gone in Xmas 1991? The Amiga version has this excellent Xmas ditty playing away (it may have been a jazzed up version of Frosty the Snowman, I forget now). Music does play, it's not that, it's just that it's not the music that I remember.

Gah... I was just about to write 'Give me the modules, and I'll put them in, smartypants.'... but then I found them. I'll transform, intergrate, swizzle and reupload. Give me a minute. >_<

Quote:

Also, a suggestion - with all these levels it takes ages for them all to load on start-up, would it be possible to give some kind of animated feature to indicate that the DS hasn't locked up or, better still, a perceantage countdown to indicate how far along the loading progress is?

Hmmm... it would be annoying to get to work, but it's possible. I'll have a crack at seeing what one would look like.
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MrD wrote:

Gah... I was just about to write 'Give me the modules, and I'll put them in, smartypants.'... but then I found them.

Sorry, it wasn't a criticism, I was just puzzled and thought the music had got mixed up somehow with the wrong tunes. Hadn't realised that you weren't using the modules. :-)

Quote:

I'll transform, intergrate, swizzle and reupload. Give me a minute. >_<

Fantastic. :-)

Quote:

Also, a suggestion - with all these levels it takes ages for them all to load on start-up, would it be possible to give some kind of animated feature to indicate that the DS hasn't locked up or, better still, a perceantage countdown to indicate how far along the loading progress is?

Hmmm... it would be annoying to get to work, but it's possible. I'll have a crack at seeing what one would look like.

Cool, thanks.

Xmas Lemmings '91 is definitely too slow, strange why the other levels are fine.

Great work though that man. :-)

Dang! Way to make me suddenly see a flaw in my 'does the file end in this extension' code. >_<

Try downloading it now. :)
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Ahhh, lovely - proper Xmas Lemmings music. Thanks! :-)

BTW, the consistent slowdown problem that I noticed on Xmas Lemmings 1991 only seems to occur on the levels with snow. Any ideas why? Perhaps it's the extra animation of the snowman causing a speed hit?

Also, a minor info screen inconsistency - on Lemmings it says to press L or R to start a game, yet on other incarnations (e.g. Xmas Lemmings) it says to tap the level you wish to play (although L or R still work). Not a big deal, just thought I'd mention it. :)

Also, despite my stylus being correctly configured, I still find that tapping on a lemming doesn't always work. This is without zooming in though, so perhaps I'm just missing by a pixel or so?

Quote:

BTW, the consistent slowdown problem that I noticed on Xmas Lemmings 1991 only seems to occur on the levels with snow. Any ideas why? Perhaps it's the extra animation of the snowman causing a speed hit?

It's all the animated stuff, the scenery... Everything basically.

It's like having a web page full of ghastly animated GIFs: It'll be slow. :)

Quote:

Also, a minor info screen inconsistency - on Lemmings it says to press L or R to start a game, yet on other incarnations (e.g. Xmas Lemmings) it says to tap the level you wish to play (although L or R still work). Not a big deal, just thought I'd mention it. :)

Umm... don't know what you're talking about here. On the level select screen there are a selection of about six captions that loop around, telling you the different controls available to you. It's possible that you're just switching between level sets at the exact same time as the captions change, so it looks like the captions are linked to the different level sets. Try leaving the screen on a level set to read the different captions. :)

Quote:

Also, despite my stylus being correctly configured, I still find that tapping on a lemming doesn't always work. This is without zooming in though, so perhaps I'm just missing by a pixel or so?

Yeah... the default setting is quite strict. Try increasing the range of the stylus in the config. if you're having trouble.
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MrD wrote:

It's all the animated stuff, the scenery... Everything basically.

It's like having a web page full of ghastly animated GIFs: It'll be slow. :)

I see. I'm surprised, I thought that the DS could handle a few animations without any slowdown. :)

Quote:

Umm... don't know what you're talking about here. On the level select screen there are a selection of about six captions that loop around, telling you the different controls available to you. It's possible that you're just switching between level sets at the exact same time as the captions change, so it looks like the captions are linked to the different level sets. Try leaving the screen on a level set to read the different captions. :)

Ah, you could be right there, I'll take a look again tomorrow.

Quote:

Yeah... the default setting is quite strict. Try increasing the range of the stylus in the config. if you're having trouble.

Thanks, will do.

Once again, you've done a lovely job with this. I'm dead impressed - I just hope that Sony don't give you any grief!

Quote:

I'm surprised, I thought that the DS could handle a few animations without any slowdown. :)

If they were hardware sprites, then definitely... but these aren't, heh. :)
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I see, so no easy way to prevent it then?

I finally got took the trouble to download and extract this on my card, and it was well worth it. The only thing I noticed was the arrows on a few levels don't animate, they're supposed to animate left and right, as if pointing. Did this just not happen in the conversion process? Or did you not program the capability for this particular animation...?
Other than that great stuff. What would be really cool is either a level creator on the DS using the stylus, or a mode where you used the stylus to get the lemmings across gaps, and maybe other gestures etc. (Have you seen that lemmings Eyetoy game on PS2? Genius.)
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gbadev.org forum archive

DS homebrew announcements > Lemmings DS! V7 final DLDI version!

#113348 - MrD - Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:39 pm

#113349 - spinal_cord - Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:23 pm

#113350 - MrD - Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:27 pm

#113351 - bob_fossil - Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:28 pm

#113353 - MrD - Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:30 pm

#113357 - tepples - Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:02 am

#113359 - MrD - Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:08 am

#113377 - Lynx - Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:59 am

#113391 - Sektor - Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:00 am

#113399 - MrD - Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:23 am

#113403 - OOPMan - Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:59 am

#113404 - MrD - Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:04 pm

#113407 - Lynx - Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:43 pm

#113413 - OOPMan - Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:32 pm

#113445 - Dan2552 - Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:04 pm

#114369 - MrD - Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:44 am

#114373 - Mr. Picklesworth - Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:19 am

#114374 - Dood77 - Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:37 am

#114375 - Ant6n - Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:45 am

#114382 - Mrshlee - Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:09 pm

#114468 - MrD - Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:57 am

#114472 - Ant6n - Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:52 am

#114476 - Dood77 - Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:00 am

#114538 - MrD - Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:40 pm

#114562 - josath - Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:04 am

#114568 - MrD - Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:47 am

#114571 - rmt38 - Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:41 am

#114584 - Ant6n - Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:53 am

#114586 - MrD - Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:14 am

#114649 - Ant6n - Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:44 pm

#114662 - MrD - Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:35 pm

#121225 - Liter - Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:17 pm

#121242 - Dood77 - Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:32 pm

#121243 - Liter - Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:40 pm

#121306 - MrD - Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:23 am

#121307 - Liter - Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:26 am

#121438 - Mrshlee - Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:12 pm

#121674 - ethoscapade - Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:53 pm

#125724 - MrD - Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:04 am

#126435 - litghost - Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:08 am

#126439 - Mr. Picklesworth - Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:44 am

#126448 - OSW - Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:42 am

#128808 - MrD - Tue May 15, 2007 12:57 pm

#128826 - Dood77 - Tue May 15, 2007 6:32 pm

#128830 - Devil_Spawn - Tue May 15, 2007 7:20 pm

#128832 - _JSR_ - Tue May 15, 2007 7:40 pm

#128904 - litghost - Wed May 16, 2007 6:16 pm

#128938 - MrD - Wed May 16, 2007 10:13 pm

#128951 - Dave2 - Thu May 17, 2007 12:29 am

#129000 - MrD - Thu May 17, 2007 1:16 pm

#129002 - dualscreenman - Thu May 17, 2007 1:28 pm

#129007 - saluk - Thu May 17, 2007 3:16 pm

#129012 - bob_fossil - Thu May 17, 2007 5:26 pm

#129015 - saluk - Thu May 17, 2007 8:01 pm

#129122 - Mrshlee - Sat May 19, 2007 4:04 am

#129238 - mortys - Sun May 20, 2007 11:35 pm

#129261 - leto - Mon May 21, 2007 7:59 am

#129274 - Anga - Mon May 21, 2007 11:02 am

#129405 - MrD - Tue May 22, 2007 2:43 pm

#129412 - SCPR - Tue May 22, 2007 5:37 pm

#129531 - squinty - Wed May 23, 2007 3:47 pm

#130071 - MrD - Wed May 30, 2007 7:38 pm

#130076 - avid - Wed May 30, 2007 8:36 pm

#130079 - Dave2 - Wed May 30, 2007 8:50 pm

#130084 - MrD - Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 pm

#130086 - Dave2 - Wed May 30, 2007 9:24 pm

#130088 - avid - Wed May 30, 2007 9:40 pm

#130089 - MrD - Wed May 30, 2007 9:44 pm

#130096 - avid - Wed May 30, 2007 11:03 pm

#130099 - MrD - Wed May 30, 2007 11:26 pm

#130106 - avid - Thu May 31, 2007 12:50 am

#130137 - mankind - Thu May 31, 2007 6:57 am

#130138 - MrD - Thu May 31, 2007 7:14 am

#130140 - mankind - Thu May 31, 2007 7:39 am

#130158 - AdolescentFred - Thu May 31, 2007 10:58 am

#130161 - Dave2 - Thu May 31, 2007 11:22 am

#130172 - Dave2 - Thu May 31, 2007 1:22 pm

#130175 - avid - Thu May 31, 2007 2:06 pm