#127871 - Devil_Spawn - Sun May 06, 2007 12:21 am
Amplituds, an almost commercial quality homebrew music rhythm game created by sander stolk [aka Dark Knight ez], boasting some of the best 3d graphics yet for a homebrew, is nearing completion of the next release of the game.
Boxart and a 3d spaceship model have been released as a teaser of what is to come, The release should be within two or three weeks now, and he said he'd release a 3D model converter program and 3D model viewer program for DS alongside.
Boxart: [Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
3d Model: [Images not permitted - Click here to view it]
[source http://www.ds-scene.net/forum/forum.php?topic=3038]
Fans of Elite Beat Agents / Guitar Hero / Amplitude keep your eyes out for this game!
#127872 - chuckstudios - Sun May 06, 2007 12:27 am
The boxart looks really well done :)
I actually printed out boxart today for my R4. It came out pretty good.
#127887 - felix123 - Sun May 06, 2007 4:47 am
Nice graphics. Looking forward to the game.
_________________
Nintendo DS homebrew on Wikipedia
#127888 - tepples - Sun May 06, 2007 4:51 am
Now all we need is a sub-$10 write-once SLOT-1 card.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#127904 - Banzai8th - Sun May 06, 2007 12:34 pm
Awww yeaaaa! I love Amplitude, and I loved the previous version of this, though it was severely lacking content. My major hope is that a proprietary song editor is released to help aid in stage creation. I remember hand coding .dwi files, and it was not fun.
#127911 - tepples - Sun May 06, 2007 2:45 pm
| Banzai8th wrote: |
| My major hope is that a proprietary song editor is released to help aid in stage creation. |
Do you mean proprietary as in non-free?
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#127915 - chuckstudios - Sun May 06, 2007 3:07 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Banzai8th wrote: | | My major hope is that a proprietary song editor is released to help aid in stage creation. |
Do you mean proprietary as in non-free? |
I think he meant "specialized", not "proprietary".
#127950 - Banzai8th - Sun May 06, 2007 10:50 pm
Yea, I meant it as in software made and released by the original developer (not third party). Posting at 6:30am FTW.
#127961 - Dark Knight ez - Mon May 07, 2007 12:04 am
| tepples wrote: |
| Now all we need is a sub-$10 write-once SLOT-1 card. |
If only. :)
| Banzai8th wrote: |
| My major hope is that a proprietary song editor is released to help aid in stage creation. |
It's still done by editing textfiles. They're a lot better laid-out than in v1 and v2 though. Adding created stages is a lot easier now too. But you'll see that soon enough.
And what's wrong with third-party software? I'd welcome it. ;p
_________________
AmplituDS website
#128001 - Puyo - Mon May 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Iz this ROM dumped already?!!?! Joking.
Boxart looks awesome indeed.
#128007 - kusma - Mon May 07, 2007 3:24 pm
Looks great :)
#128014 - Dood77 - Mon May 07, 2007 7:49 pm
Wow this is looking really nice, I can't wait.
| tepples wrote: |
| Now all we need is a sub-$10 write-once SLOT-1 card. |
Well then how would we add custom songs?
#128024 - chuckstudios - Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm
| Dood77 wrote: |
Wow this is looking really nice, I can't wait.
| tepples wrote: | | Now all we need is a sub-$10 write-once SLOT-1 card. |
Well then how would we add custom songs? |
WiFi and EEPROM :D
#128040 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Tue May 08, 2007 12:16 am
Excellent!
I was worried that development had stopped on AmplituDS since I hadn't seen any new word on it in such a long time.
This is still definitely one of my favorite and most played DS games. I can't wait for the new version. The new graphics (especially the backgrounds) look nice and I like the new top screen with the combo meter. Will it contain new songs?
| tepples wrote: |
| Now all we need is a sub-$10 write-once SLOT-1 card. |
Have you guys noticed that there's a 1Mb (128MB) version of the N-Card? I've seen it for sale for $22, which includes the slot-2 writer. If we could get just the slot-1 flash card in bulk directly from the manufacturer, I think we'd be pretty close to the viable price point for selling homebrew DS games. And that's not even a write-once card, which means that updating via wifi could be more robust. And 128MB is huge for homebrew purposes.
...word is bondage...
#128048 - Dood77 - Tue May 08, 2007 2:33 am
I think you mean Gb, not Mb. I don't know much about the N-Card, what is this slot-2 writer?
This really is a fascinating idea.
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#128051 - chuckstudios - Tue May 08, 2007 3:18 am
| Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote: |
And that's not even a write-once card, which means that updating via wifi could be more robust. And 128MB is huge for homebrew purposes.
|
With a read-only DLDI?
#128062 - Dark Knight ez - Tue May 08, 2007 6:40 am
Interesting. Would like to hear more details about that.
EEPROM itself isn't quite large enough to store stages, really. It might be able to fit "just" 3 stages or so, if 2 MB is the limit to go by as seen with commercial games.
And yes, AmplituDS v3 will have new stages/music. Currently there are two new ones, and one more is nearing completion. So that would make five stages in all to play.
_________________
AmplituDS website
#128119 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Tue May 08, 2007 7:47 pm
| Dood77 wrote: |
I think you mean Gb, not Mb. I don't know much about the N-Card, what is this slot-2 writer?
This really is a fascinating idea. |
Yeah, 1Gb is what I meant.
The N-Card is the same as the UltraFlashPass, Firelink, NeoFlash MK5, DS-Linker and about half a dozen other clones which all seem to be from the same manufacturer, just with different labels and default firmwares. The N-Card labeled ones are the only ones I've seen in 1Gb, though.
The slot-2 writer is required for writing files to the slot-1 flash card. It's just a GBA-sized cart with a USB port. Obviously, for what we're talking about here, each homebrewer would only need one of the slot-2 writers and would then just want to be able to buy additional slot-1 flash cards in bulk. These cards do have an autolaunch feature where a file with a certain name will launch automatically at boot instead of the GUI and since they're fixed memory, there's no micro-SD cards or anything, so homebrew sold on these cards would be just like commercial games in terms of physical presentation.
Unfortunately, it looks like chuckstudios is right, the DLDI driver for these cards is read-only. It's a bit of an Achilles heel, I guess. There's some discussion on the NeoFlash forum about some old precompiled FAT source that was released when the cards first came out (before DLDI, I think) which actually does have write support (it only seems to work for the smaller 1 and 4Gb cards, but I think those would be the best choice for homebrew anyway), so maybe that could be reversed and a read-write DLDI driver could be made. Or maybe we just need to push the manufacturer harder to release the full FAT source.
I don't know who the original manufacturer is for these cards actually is, though. It might be the N-Card people, since they were one of the first to come out with a card like this and they also have the largest variety of different sized cards. I've tried to contact a couple people that might know more, let's see if I get any responses. I may also just see if the NeoFlash people can be any help since they at least have forums and are cognizant of the homebrew community and they do put out a clone of this same card.
EDIT: actually the discussion about the FAT writing was here. Specifically here:
http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=12554
The download for the library files is down now, but if Diddl still has his code and it can be compiled into a working read-write DLDI driver for the smaller N-Card cards, that would be nice. However, the discussion there makes it sound like the smaller cards are not really being sold anymore. That may be why most companies only sell the 8 and 16Gb versions and maybe the smaller ones from N-Card that you can still find for sale here and there are just leftover stock. I don't know.
...word is bondage...
#128124 - tepples - Tue May 08, 2007 9:41 pm
| Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote: |
| Unfortunately, it looks like chuckstudios is right, the DLDI driver for these cards is read-only. |
Which isn't much of a problem if the cards have a 2 Mbit EEPROM. Then programs could just use SaTa's "cardme" library to save.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#128128 - Dark Knight ez - Tue May 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Well, AmplituDS' savefile is currently set to be 4 kb but could be reduced to 1 kb or less. So if the card has save functionality, it should be able to handle the save.
Writing from a slot-2 to the slot-1 devices has the advantage of the generic user not being able to fiddle with the files, and thus being like a commercial product. The downside is, of course, that getting more stages on the card (via wifi internet) would not be a viable option whereas it would be possible for people with most other (current) flashcards.
Anyway, I'll definitely keep this in mind, but the question is: will there be demand when the homebrew can be downloaded off the internet on any other (DLDI read/write-compatible [although I could make an SRAM build instead of requiring write-access]) flashcard? Might start a poll on this after AmplituDS v3 is released.
Also, aren't the prices a lot higher for the still produced (more storage space) cards?
There's still the "issue" of casing though. I mean... if cards such as this would be made purchasable, surely one would want a nice case around it all with a nice boxart slapped on it. Are these cases available for a fair price?
By the way, the topic you linked to redirects in the last reply to neoflash, but I'm not a member there. No further interesting news there as of yet?
_________________
AmplituDS website
#128130 - tepples - Tue May 08, 2007 10:24 pm
| Dark Knight ez wrote: |
| but the question is: will there be demand when the homebrew can be downloaded off the internet on any other (DLDI read/write-compatible [although I could make an SRAM build instead of requiring write-access]) flashcard? |
If you secure exclusive non-free songs for the commercial version, possibly by paying to license them, that might be enough of a value-add to get people to buy the commercial version over the freeware version.
| Quote: |
| There's still the "issue" of casing though. I mean... if cards such as this would be made purchasable, surely one would want a nice case around it all with a nice boxart slapped on it. Are these cases available for a fair price? |
Store.nintendo.com sells extra Game Card cases.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#128133 - Dood77 - Tue May 08, 2007 10:33 pm
| tepples wrote: |
| Quote: | | There's still the "issue" of casing though. I mean... if cards such as this would be made purchasable, surely one would want a nice case around it all with a nice boxart slapped on it. Are these cases available for a fair price? |
Store.nintendo.com sells extra Game Card cases. |
Heh, I think Nintendo would have an issue with that unless you could get the cards manufactured in a way that wouldn't allow for piracy.
#128137 - tepples - Tue May 08, 2007 10:46 pm
That or ship the game in a standard Compact Disc jewel case, as seen in this photo, with a custom cardboard insert to keep the Game Card from flopping about.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#128139 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Tue May 08, 2007 11:33 pm
| Dood77 wrote: |
| Heh, I think Nintendo would have an issue with that unless you could get the cards manufactured in a way that wouldn't allow for piracy. |
No, they'd still have a problem with it I'm sure, but it has been proven legal in previous court cases.
| Dark Knight ez wrote: |
| Anyway, I'll definitely keep this in mind, but the question is: will there be demand when the homebrew can be downloaded off the internet on any other (DLDI read/write-compatible [although I could make an SRAM build instead of requiring write-access]) flashcard? |
Well, this is the question. Like tepples suggested, some exclusive content would be a good idea.
You should also consider that selling a homebrew game this way expands the potential market for the game way beyond the limits of the DS homebrew community. In essence, every single DS owner is a potential buyer and the real limiting factor is your ability to get the word out (as well as the quality of the game, of course). You might think that most potential buyers would instead just opt to spend a little extra money and buy a complete flash kit, but I've tried to get a lot of people interested in homebrew and while they usually like the games I show them, most are totally turned off by everything else involved like DLDI patching and other compatibility issues or even just finding the games online in the first place and transferring them to a flash kit.
However, what's really great about this idea, in my opinion, is that we wouldn't really have to worry all that much about the potential sales. I mean, we're not talking about production runs here or anything. You're essentially just writing the game to a flash card and the printing out the insert, manual and label. When I say "buy in bulk," I'm actually thinking more of getting the cards in a raw unpackaged state than getting them in large numbers. Sure, if you bought 10 dozen cards you'd probably be able to get them for cheaper than if you only bought five, but in fact either of those options might be viable. That's what could make selling homebrew games in a professional package so much simpler and more realistic on the DS than it has been on previous systems like the Dreamcast.
| Dark Knight ez wrote: |
| Also, aren't the prices a lot higher for the still produced (more storage space) cards? |
Yeah, so unless the 1Gb ones are still being made, I don't think this would work out. However, even if they're not, I think it's only a matter of time before a workable solution does become available.
| Dark Knight ez wrote: |
| By the way, the topic you linked to redirects in the last reply to neoflash, but I'm not a member there. No further interesting news there as of yet? |
Heh, no. But maybe *NEXT* week!
...word is bondage...
#128167 - Devil_Spawn - Wed May 09, 2007 7:55 am
if you actually try and do this, its perfectly safe from take-down notices from harmonix, right?
#128191 - Lynx - Wed May 09, 2007 2:59 pm
Anyone know where I can get the software for the N-Card? I bought one, but it didn't come with any software and I can't seem to find any. When I plug it into my computer, It doesn't even recognize it was plugged in.
As for packaging, I wouldn't worry about that. There are tons of ways to get ahold of nice packaging. If needed, you could "borrow" the packaging of some other products (from their manufacturer). Or, make your own with a vacuum former.
The real question is, how cheap can you get N-Cards for in bulk? Even if it is just the N-Card without any supporting hardware or packaging (though, the N-Card packaging is pretty nice I think). It would need to be in a decent range because you have to remember, when you get into the $25/30+ range, you are competing with commercial products and it's harder to justify purchasing Amplitude (for example) over Animal Crossing (for example) if there is only a $5 difference in price.
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NDS Homebrew Roms & Reviews
#128247 - Dood77 - Wed May 09, 2007 11:52 pm
I think to get the best deal possible someone would have to deal directly with the manufacturers and strike some kind of deal.
_________________
If I use a term wrong or something then feel free to correct, I?m not much of a programmer.
Original DS Phat obtained on day of release + flashme v7
Supercard: miniSD, Kingston 1GB, Kingston 2GB
Ralink chipset PCI NIC
#128261 - Sweater Fish Deluxe - Thu May 10, 2007 1:30 am
| Lynx wrote: |
| Anyone know where I can get the software for the N-Card? I bought one, but it didn't come with any software and I can't seem to find any. When I plug it into my computer, It doesn't even recognize it was plugged in. |
I don't think the N-Card or its clones requires any software. It's supposed to be true drag and drop through explorer. If your card doesn't show up as a USB mass storage device, it may be defective.
| Quote: |
| The real question is, how cheap can you get N-Cards for in bulk? Even if it is just the N-Card without any supporting hardware or packaging (though, the N-Card packaging is pretty nice I think). It would need to be in a decent range because you have to remember, when you get into the $25/30+ range, you are competing with commercial products and it's harder to justify purchasing Amplitude (for example) over Animal Crossing (for example) if there is only a $5 difference in price. |
Price would definitely be important. It would be up to each developer, but I think $20-25 is what we should aim for for a whole number of reasons.
The retail price for the N-Card 1Gb models is $25, so I imagine that an OEM version with no packaging and no linker would have to be $15-20. When you figure in volume discount maybe we could get the price into the $10-15 range per card, which is pretty good. Of course, even if the cards are $18 or $19 a piece, the final games could still be sold for around $20. It just means that the developer wouldn't be making any money. Really though, making money isn't what I see this as being about. We're not making any money now, either, are we. At least this way we'd have something nice and physical to show for our work. I'd just like to see a game that I wrote sitting up there on my shelf alongside New Super Mario Bros. and Elite Beat Agents and maybe imagine it sitting on someone else's shelf, too.
| Dood77 wrote: |
| I think to get the best deal possible someone would have to deal directly with the manufacturers and strike some kind of deal. |
Yeah, definitely. The problem is, I'm not really sure who the manufacturer is for these cards we're talking about. It might be N-Card themselves, like I said, but they don't really seem to have any kind of online presence. It might also be DSGBA (either as manufacturer or as a third party wholesale distributor), but their site which I remember used to have information about wholesale purchases now seems to be a general DS news portal with no relation to the old site. I don't really know how else to go about trying to find the manufacturer or a wholesale distributor for these cards.
I really hope that what we're talking about here becomes possible somehow not only because I'd like to eventually put out projects of my own this way, but also because I'd love to buy other peoples's games.
...word is bondage...
#128262 - Rajveer - Thu May 10, 2007 1:42 am
I'm all for this, as long as homebrew developers don't opt for just selling their software without releasing it for free too. I don't think it would come to this, but say one person attempts to sell without releasing their application for free, then either their application won't do as well or it could be the start of the homebrew scene becoming money oriented.
I guess that's looking at one extreme however, which probably won't happen.
A positive thought I had though was the ability for big name sites, such as IGN, to review the software by sending them a free cartridge. I really think it's a strong possibility, and a good way to send out a message from the homebrew community to mainstream customers about software which they can download for free or buy cheap on cartridges. I don't think they should have a problem with it, as it wouldn't open up the possibility of piracy like reviewing a game on a flashcart would (unless news got around that you can flash an N-Cart by buying the reader).
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://amplituds.drunkencoders.com/data/images/amplituds/amplituds_boxart.jpg){kind=link}
![[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]](http://www.ds-scene.net/images/news2/AmplituDSv3_ship.gif){kind=link}