#147186 - Jakku - Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:46 am
How difficult is it to transfer a flash game into a DS game? I bloody love the portal flash version(http://portal.wecreatestuff.com/), and have always wanted to play it on my DS.
#147193 - kusma - Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:16 am
| Jakku wrote: |
| How difficult is it to transfer a flash game into a DS game? |
You can transfer it all you want, but you can't play it. There's no flash-player for the DS, so if you want flash-content running on the DS, you're going to have to re-implement it.
#147222 - Jakku - Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:07 pm
I mean port it, as in let it be playable on the DS. Would you have to start from scratch?
#147224 - kusma - Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:20 pm
Basically, yes. You might be able to get some of the game-logic and structure from the flash-version, but I personally don't know enough about flash to know if this is something you'd have to get from the developers of the flash-version or if it's possible to find directly from the flash-file.
Thanks a lot for the link, I played that game for an hour after I got home, and I must say, damn! I think I'm going to have to try the 3D version after this ;)
It'd be extremely cool if someone made a DS-version of this :)
#147225 - Jayenkai - Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:24 pm
Yup.
Flash works in Animation frames, and timelines and things, whereas C programs jump around a single* bunch of code...
There's no way to recompile a flash thing to run natively, since it's all interpreted. The best thing to do would to recompile Flash itself, and run it through that.
At first I was going to say "Not a chance.. Can't be done." But then.. I remember someone doing this for MS Smartphones, way way back, and those used Arm processors, too.
So, not entirely impossible.. Just highly improbable!
Best bet would be to start from scratch. If possible grab the sprites and use those, but if you're going to do it properly you might as well use your own sprites, too, and try to build the game around the DS properly, rather than just dragging it over with oversized sprites and levels and things.
(*Obviously the C code could be split up over 1000s of include files, but in the end the compiler clumps it all together, whereas Flash keeps things as seperate individual clips.)
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#147713 - ratboy - Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:48 pm
Would be really good to see portal on the ds in some way.
The fact that the flash one works shows off how simple and transferable the idea is.
Not thought this through but... two portals.. two screens... i wonder if a version could be made that makes clever use of that?
#147717 - Jayenkai - Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:16 pm
I was thinking that myself, as I was typing that previous reply. But the thing is that the portals should be movable. Otherwise the "Portal=Screen" thing would just be a simple teleporter affair instead.
...
If attempted, it might still be fun, although it would play quite differently then the source.
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#147726 - pas - Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:54 pm
you could use top and bottom screen as game fiels (stretch the game to both screens)
#147735 - knight0fdragon - Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:26 am
or you could open up portals anywhere the stylus touches, and swap screens for each portal, the only thing with that is, it is kind of hard to get the physics going to reach longer heights or whatnot, this opens up the idea of the 3rd, "and 4th" portal, you can use red and blue on one screen, then use green and yellow to transfer between screens ( you would have a max of 3 portals per screen)
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#147741 - takieda - Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:12 am
| Jayenkai wrote: |
I was thinking that myself, as I was typing that previous reply. But the thing is that the portals should be movable. Otherwise the "Portal=Screen" thing would just be a simple teleporter affair instead.
...
If attempted, it might still be fun, although it would play quite differently then the source. |
Add to that another oddity, what if you could shoot a portal through another portal?
Let's say you are guy G. and you need to get to Exit E.
| Code: |
___________________
| |
| |
| AAAAAA___ |
| | |_ E|
| | |
|_____|____________|
___________________
| |
| |
| __G______ |
| | | |
| | | |
|_____|_______|____| |
You start by firing to the left and up left to create portals 1 and 2.
| Code: |
___________________
| |
|2 |
| \ AAAAAA___ |
| \ | |_ E|
| | | |
|____\|____________|
___________________
| \ |
| \ |
|1------G______ |
| | | |
| | | |
|_____|_______|____| |
Now fire at Portal 1 and the portal beam shoots through portal 2 to wall space marked N.
| Code: |
___________________
| |
|2----------------N|
| AAAAAA___ |
| | |_ E|
| | |
|_____|____________|
___________________
| |
| |
|1------G______ |
| | | |
| | | |
|_____|_______|____| |
You now have Portal 1 moved to previous wallspace N and just need to shoot a new Portal 2 to jump through to reach exit E to bypass spikes marked A.
| Code: |
___________________
| |
|2 1|
| AAAAAA___ |
| | |_ E|
| | |
|_____|____________|
___________________
| |
| |
| __G______ |
| | | |
| | | |
|_____|_______|____| |
After shooting at floor in front of G, you jump through Portal 2 and portal through to portal 1, dropping down to exit E, and beat the level.
| Code: |
___________________
| |
| 1|
| AAAAAA___ G |
| | |_ E|
| | |
|_____|____________|
___________________
| |
| |
| 2________ |
| | | |
| | | |
|_____|_______|____| |
That is a gross oversimplification, admittedly, but that's one way you could use 2 screens.
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#147742 - takieda - Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:18 am
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| or you could open up portals anywhere the stylus touches, and swap screens for each portal, the only thing with that is, it is kind of hard to get the physics going to reach longer heights or whatnot, this opens up the idea of the 3rd, "and 4th" portal, you can use red and blue on one screen, then use green and yellow to transfer between screens ( you would have a max of 3 portals per screen) |
The beauty of Portal is it's absolutely simplistic design. The gameplay mechanic is so simple that the game is easy to grasp and play for anyone. Its also very well thought out, making it an exceptionally fun game. Adding complexity to it may make it more interesting for some, but you will *drastically* reduce the number of people interested in playing it.
I'm actually of the mind to not employ the stylus at all, especially if it goes dual screen... as once you are on the top screen, there's no real way to control the gun...
oh wait. what if the top and bottom screens are wrapped top to bottom. So the moment you fall off the bottom of the bottom screen you emerge at the top of the top screen (which instantly jumps to the bottom screen). That way you're always controlling the bottom screen. The top screen is just the other screen to get to.
IMO, however, there should never be more than two portals, too much confusion.
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#147743 - takieda - Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:22 am
another idea would be to have larger playing fields than the one or two screens can show. The top screen would then be a "level map" screen, and the bottom screen would show the player a bit more zoomed in, allowing you to more precisely control the character.. It would also allow for a bit more difficulty, rather than just clicking on the point you want the portal to appear at, you simply click in the direction and it gets shot in that direction and appears on whatever wall spot that was in direct line of sight.
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#147745 - knight0fdragon - Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:24 am
the one flaw with your game design is that it would have to employ a 3rd portal, otherwise step 3 can not happen, because when you fire portal 1 a second time, portal 1 disappears, then the portal 1 beam lands where you aimed portal one, and if you fire portal 2, the portal 2 disappears, then the portal 2 beam lands where portal 1 was
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#147746 - takieda - Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:39 am
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| the one flaw with your game design is that it would have to employ a 3rd portal, otherwise step 3 can not happen, because when you fire portal 1 a second time, portal 1 disappears, then the portal 1 beam lands where you aimed portal one, and if you fire portal 2, the portal 2 disappears, then the portal 2 beam lands where portal 1 was |
not necessarily true... think of portal firing as firing a small chip. When that chip lands on a solid surface, it creates a new portal. IF two portals already exist it deactivates the oldest of the two portals. In a very slow environment, on step 3, firing the chip through portal one and having it go through portal two allows for portals one and two to continue to exist. The "third" portal is still in chip form after it has passed through one and two. As it lands and activates on the wall, it automatically deactivates portal one and recreates it on the wall. Now speed things up to near light speed and you have the same effect, though it seems instantaneous.
And before you go stating anything about the fact that Portal doesn't employ chips, this was simply an example idea. The idea still has merit if you consider a beam of energy passing through portal one and portal two before hitting the wall and moving portal one. After all, we don't know the physics of how the portals work, for one, and two, the beam of energy simply cannot move faster than the speed of light. It does its job immediately after passing through portals one and two.
btw, not trying to be argumentative if it seems as such. I've got a head cold right now and it's difficult to focus on the grammar of what I'm typing.
Besides, even if what you say is true, and somehow I'm not understanding the physics of it, the point is the gampelay. The player never actually sees or uses more than one portal at a time, thusly the two portal mechanism remains.
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#147748 - knight0fdragon - Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:45 am
I am not argueing about what a portal is, or the sciences behind the portal, I could care less if it was dog crap flung into a wall and creates a portal, I am just debating on the logic of how the game will be designed theoretically, 3 portal beams would work, as long as you have complete control as to which beam goes through the portals, but like you said earlier, you are adding to the complexity now
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#147749 - takieda - Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:57 am
pardon me for sounding like I was attacking, I wasn't trying to.
***edit***
after rereading it still sounded argumentative, so I'm cutting it out...
You're right though, it does add a level of additional complexity in how the portals are employed, and that should be discouraged... I'm just getting excited about the idea and am running my mouth about something I have no real control over anyway, as I have no coding skills and this certainly won't be done by me, if it ever gets done.
Apologies to you.
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#147751 - iofthestorm - Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:38 am
Wow, a DS port of Portal would be amazing and I think the Box2D physics library that 0xtob ported recently would be very helpful for someone looking to undertake the task. Too bad I know hardly anything about DS homebrew programming, and have so far only made a bloated palib program that displays a menu and reacts to button presses for the software I am planning on writing eventually.
#147752 - Dwedit - Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:07 am
Flash is a stack machine based on bytecode, so you can always get an almost perfect decompilation of the original actionscript code through tools like Flare.
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#147972 - Devil_Spawn - Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:22 am
| knight0fdragon wrote: |
| I am not argueing about what a portal is, or the sciences behind the portal, I could care less if it was dog crap flung into a wall and creates a portal, I am just debating on the logic of how the game will be designed theoretically, 3 portal beams would work, as long as you have complete control as to which beam goes through the portals, but like you said earlier, you are adding to the complexity now |
no way, 2 portals is perfect, you can get pretty much anywhere with 2, you just have to get the timing right
#148038 - Jakku - Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:34 am
FYI: I have no intention of making this, whether anyone else is I have no idea but it would be amazing to be made. As for the top screen, maybe it could have tips? You know like the game has a bar at the top with a few words of advice, or a neat logo. As for controls, there is no need in using more than 2 portals :O. It would just get complex as many people have said.
What would be a major barrier is the assignment for the 2 portals. Using the stylus all the time restricts you to only the Dpad and one shoulder button(Unless you use a thumb stylus). Possibly the shoulder button could be used for toggling between the orange and blue? In the corner could be a portal that changes colour according to what portal is currently selected.
If anyone does this I would definately get involved in it, be it graphical design, promotion, whatever. I have some graphics skills.
Earlier I was reading about a homebrew super smash game, before it could be shared nintendo contacted him and told him to delete the files instantly. If this was made, would that problem arise? seeing as it would be primarily based upon the flash version.
#148466 - Jakku - Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:02 am
0xtob has stated he would be interested in impelementing Portals into his Pocket Physics game, he says its a "maybe, but probably not."
| 0xtob wrote: |
Hey!
As you probably noticed, version 0.2 is out!
The main addition are pins that you can use to pin objects to the background or to each other (see the screenshots on the homepage for example uses). Also I tried to eliminate crashes, which are mostly related to integer overflows in my ported physics library. I think the amount of crashes has reduced, but it might just be me.
| spalnndsstest wrote: | | can you add an option to do free lines in the static red objects? if i do a big semi circle, the first and the end point become joined by a stright line themself |
Good idea, since this is confusing people a lot and often causes self-intersecting objects which are not treated correctly in the convex decomposition code. | automat wrote: | | 0xtob all you software plainly rock. got an iphone yet? :P |
Incidentally I don't. Wanna buy me one? :)
| Devil_Spawn wrote: | | hollow shapes would be a good feature |
Hmm, what would they be good for?
| Jim e wrote: | | Oh I love the pins! As I type this I'm trying to prove that the over balanced wheel isn't fundamentally flawed in every way. So far not good. |
It's actually possible to create perpetuum mobiles since air resistance is not simulated. Just imagine the objects are on a strange paper planet without atmosphere :)
| Jim e wrote: | | I have an unoriginal idea, blame it on a recent Portal addiction. How bout adding portals that teleport objects from one point of the screen to another perhaps preserving velocity. It could make for some interesting endless animations. |
I actually thought about this! But then again, people would be disappointed to find out I was lying about the cake.
Thanks to everyone who had ideas for new features and thanks to pas for collecting them! As I said earlier I don't want to work on this project very long (I hope someone is interested in picking it up later). But since the resonance is quite positive (even girls enjoy it!) I might extend my TODO list a little. So I'll just take your list and pick the ideas I like:
TODO:
- bigger paper (scroll support, 4x the size of the touchscreen would totally reach)
- loading/saving of levels
- non-closed shapes
- moving shapes with the stylus
- Rubber shapes
- Maybe: Duplicating shapes
- Maybe: on/off switchable grid that allows easier drawing
- Maybe, but probably not: Portals
Thanks again for your ideas! Feel free to suggest more, but be aware that I'm picky :) |
#148712 - Markzilla - Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:15 am
#148717 - jay001 - Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:08 am
wow ^^
with better graphics and levels this could be good
#148746 - Jakku - Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:01 pm
thats awesome, markzilla. Thanks for posting that. Theyve done that really well, in terms of the physics. Im really glad they took momentum into consideration aswell. id love for that to be released in its current state.
#149151 - ratboy - Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:21 am
Playing through with the commentary bubbles is interesting. Lots of things are mentioned including number of portals and fireing through portals.
Very worthwhile for anyone looking to dev it.
#149864 - Sypherknife - Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:58 am
| takieda wrote: |
Add to that another oddity, what if you could shoot a portal through another portal?
|
Wow... guess you never played the "original" portal aka "Narbacular Drop"
A long time ago, before valve hired these guys to make portal they made the exact thing you're talking about (for PC)
http://www.nuclearmonkeysoftware.com/
Personally I think Narbacular Drop would be a much better port to the DS :P
Markzilla, Just proved that a 2D version or portal is not only possible, but actual! I cant seem to find the .nds on that website, but it must be somewhere... right?
#149871 - takieda - Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:45 am
| Sypherknife wrote: |
Wow... guess you never played the "original" portal aka "Narbacular Drop"
Personally I think Narbacular Drop would be a much better port to the DS :P
|
OMG, that rocked and sucked at the same time! (oh the story, the painful painful story) And yes, something like that would work beautifully on the DS... makes me wish to gawd I could code... *argh*
But now you've got me wondering exactly how a game like Narbacular drop could be played on the DS AND, use both screens, AND AND AND... *coughs 'n' sputters* need to breathe here, methinks.
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#158343 - KillerMapper - Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:54 pm
#158357 - kusma - Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:51 pm
Absolutely brilliant!
#158366 - silent_code - Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:36 pm
@ KillerMapper: AWESOME! :^D
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Last edited by silent_code on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
#158431 - silent_code - Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:02 pm
@ KillerMapper:
... But the portal controls are sub optimal and need some tweaking. e.g. one button would switch between red and blue portal and the other would shoot it (just like the current two keys do right now.) When shooting, the portals could automatically switched and only in situations when the players don't want that behaviour, they can switch the portal manually.
I hope that is clear enough, but I could PM you the idea in more detail, if you liked that.
Keep up the good work and I hope you'll add some more levels (e.g. cool user maps) to later releases! :^)
One remark about graphics consistency: In the top picture, the little guy has green hands and a dark orange line on the jumpsuit, but on the bottom picture, he's got skin coloured hands and a yellow line, which is a little distracting. ;^)
I personally like the combination, where he has skin hands and the dark orange line. :^D
PS: I can't get it to work with my M3 Real, it hangs at the "DLDI Compatible" screen, which, for whatever reason, comes no matter what homebrew I start (with and without DLDI support)... but usually it doesn't hang. :^( Is there anything special I have to watch out for? I have tried to run it from the root, but it's still hanging.
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#158435 - JLsoft - Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:14 pm
silent_code, the loading problem is an apparent problem with the M3 DS Real kernel's loader...I've ran into several things that either acted oddly or didn't load at all if I tried to load them from the main browser.
Load StillAliveDS from either DSOrganize's file browser, or Spinal Cord's DSision menu: http://spinal.dizidesigns.co.uk/dsision.php
#158436 - silent_code - Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:26 pm
Thanks a lot, I'll try that.
Do you know why that happens? For example, QuakeDS works just fine (when put in the root)? I ask this as an HB developer. :^)
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#158440 - KillerMapper - Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:20 pm
I'm not the guy who making this homebrew. I just found the game, and I saw this topic before so I put the link here.
Also you can see the link of the video posted by Markzilla showing a cube using portals and the link I put is the same: http://t4ils.free.fr/.
#158444 - silent_code - Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:41 pm
Oh, sorry for the confusion. :^)
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