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This application is designed to help players of the Scrabble board-game.
It provides word-validation and anagrams search. Information and download on this site :

http://nipil.org/a2008-01-16.html (stable URL, you can bookmark). Mirror available at : http://netsach.free.fr/nipil.org/

The application is available in french and english.

UPDATE: Release v0.6c
- added low-power mode when lid is closed
- added D-pad scroll abilities (Up/Down)

Please do the bug-reporting and the comment on this thread.

Wish you'll like it ;)

Edit: v0.6c release

Last edited by nipil on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:23 am; edited 13 times in total

nipil wrote:

But as is written on the website, if someone provides me with a complete english-word list
with all forms of all words allowed for use in the Scrabble game, i'll of course make an english
version.

When Scrabble crossword game is played in tournaments, Hasbro (US/Canada) or Mattel (elsewhere) mandates the use of one specific dictionary per country. Hasbro uses TWL, while Mattel uses SOWPODS, which consists of TWL plus the lowercase words in Chambers Dictionary. The list of words in SOWPODS can (temporarily?) be found on this page. But as long as your product isn't distributed under the SCRABBLE trademark, you can probably get away with starting with /usr/dict/words from a English distribution of *BSD or *Linux, stripping out any line that doesn't match /^[a-z]+$/, and making it clear that your program and word list come with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
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-- Who?
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-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

Superbe, j'adore le scrabble surtout avec ma DS ? cot? mais chuttt !
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tepples wrote:

SOWPODS, TWL

Thanks for these resources. I didn't know the right "keywords" so i didn't manage to find these.
I'll work on the english version tommorrow, and hopefuly get it done by the end of the day.

nipil wrote:

tepples wrote:

SOWPODS, TWL

Thanks for these resources. I didn't know the right "keywords" so i didn't manage to find these.

I just started with Scrabble on Wikipedia and found the keywords there.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

Yeah. I'm ashamed i didn't think about it ;)

UPDATE:
- Version 0.5 was just released.
- French version with ODS5.
- English version with TWL.
- English version with SOWPODS.

Italian version: i could do an italian version if someone translates a dozen strings.
Take a look at the project page for a link to the string file. If you translate it, please post the result here.

Greetings nipil!

First I want to thank you for working on such an excellent homebrew for the DS. :o)

So here's the thing. I've purchased Scrabble for the Gameboy Color system four times now on Ebay (they sell for up to $90.00 at times).

I usually play it at least once a day for almost the past five years now.

I don't care too much for Scrabble itself but in the game there's a version called "Conundrum" which is incredibly fun and addictive. My friends and family love to play it whenever they come to visit me. I swear, this game has never gotten old for me or anyone that I know.

So I was wondering, any possible chance you could check this game out and see if it's something you would like to feature with your next release?

I'm not expecting a yes answer from you on this, but I'd be a fool not to ask. :o)

Cheers.

I liked this App a lot. I don't know how often I'll use it for scrabble, judging how I don't play it much anyways. But it's great for use as a dictionary. Didn't have one on my DS, now I do.
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And if a lawyer from Hasbro or Mattel bothers you about the name, you could always call it "sowpoDS".
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

This is a great app...my gf and have been using it a lot lately, and most likely will for a long time to come..it seems whenever we want to play, we aren't home, so this is perfect..my ds is usually with me anyway, so this is the perfect thing to have
the verify option is perfect to keep yourself from cheating by looking at the extra words, but the search option is great for expanding word knowledge and vocabulary...i cant wait until the scoring is working so i dont need to find paper either :D
..even if it would be just a scribble type thing where you could just write and still add by hand would be cool.

I don't really know much about the programming for the ds, but i do have a few suggestions...
the only real thing that has been a bit of a problem is that I'm left handed..its not that big a deal, but a right/left handed option would be a little more welcoming :)
i also have been having a hard time telling which tab i'm on..i see that its got the corner cut off/folded so you can tell, but maybe some color on the selected or the others grayed out would help telling which tab you're on.

thanks a lot again for the great app, and i'll be waiting for the next release

First of all, a big thanks to all of you for your remarks and compliments. I'm very honored by such a positive feedback for a first release ;)
Here are my answers :

Opus wrote:

"Scrabble for the Gameboy Color" ... "there's a version called "Conundrum" which is incredibly fun and addictive" ... "see if it's something you would like to feature with your next release?"

Thing is, i don't have any GBA, nor any copy of this game, and as such i have no clue at all how it works. There sure is a way to test it, but if you could provide me with some links/documentation speaking about it i'd be happy to take a look at it. If it has something to do with a dictionnary, i might try to include relevant parts of it.

Potent1 wrote:

But it's great for use as a dictionary.

Just a warning which you might already be aware of : not all words are included in the dictionnaries, which focus on the scrabble rules. Besides, i *could* make a version based on a unix-based spell list, but i can't guarantee anything, as the dictionnary size has to fit (for now) in memory.

When i'm interested in learning fat-things, i'll make a version which would read the dictionnaries from the cart. But this is very far from being a priority right now, as it's easier for me to make a specific version build per language (makefile does it all). Plus i don't have to care for fat/cart-based problems, as my rule of thumb is "if you can start the game, it has to work". I further guess there are very few people who play scrabble in different languages, and even fewer of these who use my application, so changing the language at runtime would only be a "marketing feature" =)

tepples wrote:

And if a lawyer from Hasbro or Mattel bothers you about the name, you could always call it "sowpoDS".

Good idea, though the odds are quite low that they would remark this toy. I further make no profit from it, and as thus, they are not harmed in any way. I might even be giving them free advertisement ;)

Mythran wrote:

I cant wait until the scoring is working so i dont need to find paper either :D ... problem is that I'm left handed ... maybe some color on the selected or the others grayed out would help

Scoring implementation will be the next function to be included. I had a hard time deciding whether i should wait or release a preliminary version without the scoring, and i decided to do so, as i was too impatient to wait ! So it'll be implemented in v0.6 : as with other functions, you'll type the numbers and validate the current turn by clicking the function button once again.

Thanks for the feedback for left-handed persons. I thought about it, and decided it was no critical thing, as there is very low interactivity and no control-speed requirement. But as it's requested, i'll make an option to change it (touch-screen on the left hand side).

Concerning the graphics, i wanted to make the interface as minimal as possible, and i thought that filling the buttons with a solid color didn't fit my "aesthetic requirements" :-) That's why i pluggd the small folded corner. Would it be sufficient if i made something like each of the 4 buttons' corners folded? If not, of course i'll add some color to the theme, any kind of light yellow, or some other non-flashy colors... I just have to find the right thing that pleases my eye.

The next release shall come soon, i'm even more motivated when i see such feedback. Thanks again.

nipil wrote:

the dictionnary size has to fit (for now) in memory

Word lists can be easily stored in a compressed, but searchable, format due to their ordering. Here's a simplistic algorithm for example.

Maxim wrote:

Word lists can be easily stored in a compressed, but searchable, format due to their ordering. Here's a simplistic algorithm for example.

Thanks a lot for this pointer ! I was working on zip-compressing each dictionnary by "word-length" block, it was yielded quite nice results. I didn't know of this specific method, so i'll try it out and maybe i could merge both techniques.

Okay, so I dug out the instruction booklet for Scrabble but it doesn't describe the game "Conundrum" in depth like I was expecting it to.

So I'll have to write up a summary of the game in my own words. :o/

Here it goes:

The game can be up to four players
If you want you can choose a computer opponent to go up against (novice, easy, normal, hard, and expect)
You can also choose a time limit per round

The game consists of 14 rounds, whoever has the highest score in the end is the winner.

All tiles/letters have the same point values as in Scrabble

At the beginning of a round, each player is shown the same group of 7 random letters and must make the highest scoring word he/she can from them. (there are blank tiles, but it will only use one at the most per round if it was randomly selected)

The letters are placed on seven squares from left to right, some of which are premium squares. One double letter and one triple letter square is randomly selected within the first four squares.

A five letter word yields a double word score.

A six letter word yields a triple word score.

A seven letter word yields a triple word score + 50 points.

As you make up your word, the game calculates the total score you would receive in real time.

There are no challenges in the game.

If the word is not found you score a big squadoosh for the round.

At the end of each round, it shows all of the players' words for that round, the score that they received, and their total accumulated score up to that point and ranks everyone by order.

It then begins searching for what the best possible word for that round was and then displays it along with the score that could have been earned with it.

In some rounds there is no possible word to make and the only score that can be earned is zero.

At the end, the winner receives an animation of scrabble tiles dancing with fireworks. The loser sees a screen where their pieces are struck down by lightning.

The game can be saved at anytime during the match.

It keeps running records of everyone's individual statistics (best words, best scores) and an overall high scores and best words statistical screen.

In summary, it's super easy for a player to understand how the game is played.

In my opinion, the overall average score for a game is:

300- Below average
400- Average
500- Above average
600- Bordering on genius
700- Close to running the three minute mile. I've only scored 700+ four times in like six or seven years.

Well, at least provide a little feedback if this is something you'd be willing to looking deeper into. This seriously is probably one of the most fun, easy to play, social games you'll ever find.

Cheers. :o)

Quote:

Potent1 wrote:
But it's great for use as a dictionary.
Just a warning which you might already be aware of : not all words are included in the dictionnaries, which focus on the scrabble rules. Besides, i *could* make a version based on a unix-based spell list, but i can't guarantee anything, as the dictionnary size has to fit (for now) in memory.

When i'm interested in learning fat-things, i'll make a version which would read the dictionnaries from the cart. But this is very far from being a priority right now, as it's easier for me to make a specific version build per language (makefile does it all). Plus i don't have to care for fat/cart-based problems, as my rule of thumb is "if you can start the game, it has to work". I further guess there are very few people who play scrabble in different languages, and even fewer of these who use my application, so changing the language at runtime would only be a "marketing feature" =)

I don't know why I said that. I didn't really think about it, but it's not a dictionary. A dictionary has definitions. It only checks if it's a word, and that only shows up in Scrabble defined words. So you were correct in naming it Scrabble Assistant. I just didn't think about it before.
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Opus wrote:

#include "Conundrum.h"

So i could sum it up it being a boardless game, where all players play with the same letters on each turn. Score calculation is "randomized" and lots of stats are available. Even if it's quite reducive and doesn't make up with the game's potential, did i get it right ?

Thing is, the only thing i could provide regarding these rules is computing the total scores (as will be done for normal Scrabble games, and you'd still have to compute the score for each player's words). As a consequence, the "total score calculations" i'll include in this application could be used to store and compute total players' scores for Conundrum.

This mode has a very interesting scheme. To answer your question, i won't include the gaming-scheme Conundrum provides, as Scrabble Assistant is not a game in itself and as thus, this doesn't really fit in. But still, the scoring function provided here will be usable when you play a "real-life" Conundrum game (as you'll be able to enter each player's score for each turn).

IMHO, this "Conundrum" mode really deserve a DS port on its own. The only technical problem is the use of DS to DS wifi communication, to be able to get multiplayer mode. I'm really interested in this, even just to try it out, so i think i'll give it a try at "porting" it to the DS when this application reaches version 1.0 and is, in some way, finished.

Edit: typos

Last edited by nipil on Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Potent1 wrote:

I don't know why I said that. I didn't really think about it, but it's not a dictionary. A dictionary has definitions.

You're not wrong, a dictionnary could still be used only to check a word's spelling... :-)

nipil wrote:

Potent1 wrote:

I don't know why I said that. I didn't really think about it, but it's not a dictionary. A dictionary has definitions.

You're not wrong, a dictionnary could still be used only to check a word's spelling... :-)

True, but most of the time I'm looking in a dictionary, I'm looking for the definition. Sometimes to check spelling, but mostly definitions. But this will work great with Scrabble, now it doesn't take forever to look up a word. The dictionary we usually use weighs like 20 pounds. We have one that like the ones you see in libraries. Those Big Monster dictionaries. I must say, it's not really fair, because everything seems to be a word in that dictionary. But this will really help out. And how long can the words be? (Words in Scrabble Assistant) I think I read 15 characters somewhere.
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Potent1 wrote:

And how long can the words be? (Words in Scrabble Assistant) I think I read 15 characters somewhere.

As the ODS french list, and the SOWPODS/TWL english list are some sort of "scrabble bible", they only contain the words that fit on the board, which size is namely 15 tiles.

But due to the (currently) uncompressed list's size held in the .nds itself, i had to reduce the length of available words in v0.5 (look at the README.txt for accurate and up-to-date info on different version builds) :
- english is 2-15 (both twl & sowpods)
- french is 2-11
- to-be-released-italian is 2-10.

Finally, once i implement the method shown by Maxim, each dictionnary should be a full 2-15.

Maxim wrote:

Word lists can be easily stored in a compressed, but searchable, format due to their ordering. Here's a simplistic algorithm for example.

I just implemented a random-list-to-organized-list filter, and after some testing, here are my results :

Code:

lang rawz raw comp compz rz/r c/r cz/c cz/r cz/rz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fr 854 3963 1451 309 0,22 0,37 0,21 0,08 0,36
ens 687 2906 1118 361 0,24 0,38 0,32 0,12 0,53
ent 460 1897 746 249 0,24 0,39 0,33 0,13 0,54
it 1436 7119 2339 465 0,20 0,33 0,20 0,07 0,32
Numbers are size in KB.

As you might guess, the "raw" is the list currently included in the various 0.5 builds. The "*z" is the zipped version of the same thing. "comp" is the output of the method found in the link. And the A/B ratios are compression ratios. According to this table, the method pointed by Maxim is yielding a whooping 60% compression (c/r) without any additionnal uncompressing/treatment. Works awesomely nice in this context. By further compressing the output using zip/deflate (around 70% for rz/r and cz/c), you reach a final compression around 90% (cz/r) !

Using this, i could store all 3 dictionnaries (fr,ens,ent) and keep enough space in memory to uncompress the biggest one (not willing to use fat yet). But to use it, i would have to change the way the inner functions work, as i was previously using a length-alpha sorted list. And i'd have to link/test a zlib or something similar. Which is not on top the priority list ;) But i'll keep this in my bags, i promise !

Quote:

As the ODS french list, and the SOWPODS/TWL english list are some sort of "scrabble bible", they only contain the words that fit on the board, which size is namely 15 tiles.

Duh? I didn't even think about that. I should have thought about how many tiles you can put down for one word. I haven't played it in a long time, my bad. But I'm glad that the English version has the full 15 characters.
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nipil wrote:

To answer your question, i won't include the gaming-scheme Conundrum provides, as Scrabble Assistant is not a game in itself and as thus, this doesn't really fit in.

Nor is Microsoft Windows a game in itself. Yet Solitaire fits in, as a demonstration of the architecture.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.

tepples wrote:

Nor is Microsoft Windows a game in itself. Yet Solitaire fits in, as a demonstration of the architecture.

I can't do nothing but disagree : the sole aim of solitaire is to provide new users people something to do when they boot up their computer with a fresh install, and have no other toys to play with. An OS in itself is boring, and the users don't like to be bored, especially with their shiny new toy. They may become inactive, and might go back to real life, which is not what the OS manufacturer wants you to do, as it breaks the brainwashing sequence. On the other hand, that might explain why the solitaire is the most played game in the world (estimated 42M users, forgot the source of the info).

Quick update : i just did the first version with score calculations. It allows from 1 (solo) to 6 players. Here's a screenshot.

Outdated screenshot removed

Things left to do before next release :
- Find a solution for "endgame +/- calculations"
- Enable editing player names
- Add a "new game" button, or find a smart sequence for it
- Make a left-handed-people-friendly interface
- Translate string file for all languages
- Do some graphics refactoring for better readability...

Last edited by nipil on Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

nipil wrote:

Would it be sufficient if i made something like each of the 4 buttons' corners folded?

Hey..i think all 4 corners folded would be great...or maybe just the selected tab being bold/underlined or both. there doesn't have to be color, but just a little something extra to let you know exactly which tab you're on...especially w/ the upcoming scoring tab being implemented as well.

[EDIT]: that scoring preview looks great..i cant wait the next release :)

bug first, ideas second:
If, when you first start the program and put in seven letters (EDNBAIT, and a few others did this repeatedly, though six letter collections did not seem to have this problem), then press Search, then Verify twice, then Search twice, it will first do the search and show that it worked, then Verify and show that it worked, then search again, but it will show the anagrams on the left, but not the number on the top screen. After that all button presses are ineffective - crash.

Update to bug... Now, having tested the bug by first hitting Verify, then Search, and switching back and forth, the bug seems to have disappeared on the smaller of the two English dictionaries. Even trying to replicate it exactly as above seems to have failed. The bug continues on the larger of the two dictionaries, however, and even crashes with fewer than 7 letters (I've tried with several different combinations of 6 and 5 letter strings). It also does not seem to have anything to do with the number of anagrams (as I had originally thought, as it seemed to work fine with a string of seven letters with only 15 anagrams found - whereas it crashed on a string with 38 anagrams).

This bug was found on both English versions, under the exact same conditions on an M3 Mini SD Slot 2 device.
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As much a fan of Scrabble as I've been through my life, I can't tell you how useful this little app can be to me and my friends, and how much potential it has for future development. It's great to see that scoring is to be implemented, but I'm curious as to how all the squares on the board are implemented, i.e. when a word passes over a double letter and a double word score, for instance - what exactly is done to properly tally the score (and what about blank tiles?)?

That being said, here's a few suggestions that I think might make it a bit easier for people to use, give it a more polished feel, etc... at least IMHO.

I seem to have noticed a LOT of strings of letters coming up with exactly 38 anagrams. Is this a limitation of the program? Is it possible to have more than 38 anagrams in Scrabble Assistant? If so, some scrolling, or pressing of the DPad would work to allow people to see more words.

Scoring should be the only time the numbers are visible (as I'm guessing that's what they're going to be used for).

There should be some method of distinguishing whether or not a button has been pressed (at least a greater distinguishing method. Sometimes I can't tell if it's because I'm off center of the letter or just not pressing down hard enough, etc... and it just feels difficult to type on. If all letters were surrounded by squares to give them a "boundary" for touch, that would make it easier to hit them (even though it doesn't do anything more than just provide a clearer definition of where to aim). Also, lighting or darkening a letter as its being pressed gives a better, more real feel to button pressing.

The top section doesn't really feel necessary. The bit of information it does provide, from time to time, could easily be displayed on the other screen. It would also allow for larger, and easier to hit letters. (and adding to that, to give each letter a kind of tile look, with point values, if possible, would just add to the feel of the whole package). Also, having larger letters would allow some of my more "cumbersome" friends to be able to use it (with their fingers, some people I don't trust with a stylus).

There are only so many letter tiles in the game. I've found it possible in Scrabble Assistant to select the letters Z, Q, J, and K several times (which can only be selected 3 times at a maximum, if two blank tiles are used). Also, once a word is scored, those tiles should be eliminated from the pool as well, that way if, in a game of fun, we chose to look up words based on tiles that *might* be left, we would know that we can't make any more Z words because both blanks and the real one is already played, etc.. (this would be more important when you're trying to make a word with letters you don't yet have, and you're not sure if, say, all the S's are in play.)

As I don't know how Scoring will be implemented, I'm not talking about that tab in this, but with the other two, the tabs should just be more of "section" tabs, rather than actual buttons as well. That way you can select "search" and then type in a set of letters, then hit a button labeled something like "OK" without wondering whether or not you've effectively done anything. (at one point I pressed Verify about 3 times before realizing it was a different section, not the "OK" button for Search, another time, I pressed Search repeatedly before realizing that the program had crashed).

Each section should keep its own words, and tiles, that way you can put your current rack of tiles into "search" and then switch to verify, after you've selected a word, without losing your current rack, etc.. if the word exists and you choose to use it, then you could press another button, called "use" or something similar, that would then cut those letters out of your rack, and then automatically put those letters into the scoring tab (perhaps, still don't know how you have scoring setup).

It would also be nice to be able to turn off one or more features on this. I've already used it at a few of my local games for verification purposes, to much applause but have caught others attempting to use it to find words while playing in a 'not for fun" game (i.e. an actual tournament game, for score, where no lookups or verifies are allowed unless challenges are made, etc..) If this is implemented, having some very visible method for showing that those sections are being blocked would be nice, like the "Search" Tab being in red (or greyed out, or the block surrounding it having a dashed line rather than a solid one, etc.). This option should be selected at beginning of running, and perhaps even password protected to ensure, as the unit is passed around, that it's not being changed off and on.

Next are features that I think would be very nice to add, but haven't a clue as to whether or not others would really be interested, beyond my own interests.

Sound: while absolutely not a necessity, very faint clicks or beeps at button press would add a significantly polished feel to this.

Adding reset support would be nice (preferably through L+R+A+B+X).

Internet connectivity. Bear with me on this one. Initially I thought it'd be interesting to have an entire full dictionary with definitions, et al, built in. However, speed and size limitations kind of kill that (as fast as this program is so far, I can't help but wonder if libfat'ing it might slow it down). IF a gamer was interested, it'd be nice to have the game run at full speed, as is, then connect to a wifi hotspot, and get specific data from websites such as tfd.com (the free dictionary), or m-w.com (meriam webster), and use that information for definitions (as quite often people want to know what the BIZARRE words we find actually mean). This also allows for thesaurus information, with synonyms, and antonyms, etc. Perhaps even, with implemented sound, having the word pronounced (I know tfd.com uses flash to dynamically load the sound in, then play it as soon as you click on it, which seems faster than m-w.com's system - perhaps at least SOME online dictionary would have the pronunciations to each individual word available as a .wav download, or .mp3, or something that *might* be playable on the DS).

Now that I'm done pipedreaming, nipil, thanks for the wonderful app, that, even if you were to just drop it in its current state, it will get an intense level of usage from me and several of my friends. Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, implement some, all, or none of them, as you prefer (as I'm sure you will anyway), but just thought I'd offer some ideas. Maybe someone else might agree with me on them as well?
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hey takieda, I agree with you with some things, but i think i disagree with you as well :P

I'm not speaking for nipil in any way, but i didnt really think that the scoring function would score words for you automatically, but more keep a running total of each person's score, while you calculated the individual word's score yourself...it would be very difficult, and in my opinion, more work to have to tell it which letters are on triple letter squares and such, than it would to just add them in your head and type in the total to add it to your score..no offense, but there doesn't seem to be much point to me in playing the actual game vs a computer scrabble game if everything is being automated.

Also, as far as eliminating letters used or making possible words with diminishing tile counts, it would be extremely hard to give accurate conclusions as to which tiles are still available, because of word placement on the board..if someone uses a z, it doesn't automatically take the z out of the list. if the last letter of, say, ZEBRA was used to connect this word to another, the person used the z, but it is still available for others to make words off of...if you selected z, q, j, and k more than 3 times to make words, I don't see any reason anyone would actually do that for real...secondly, while I understand that you cant possibly have words like that, it also doesn't make any sense to have to worry about that in a real game.

one thing that might be good though, which could later be an option to turn on and off, could be the use of the letter points in the search, putting the higher base value words at the top, and working down alphabetically.

other than that, there doesn't seem to be much else that can be concrete enough as far as counting points or letter availability.

again, this is just my opinion..i do agree with maybe borders around the keyboard letters, and maybe a small clicking sound or darkening of the letter to let you know that you definitely clicked the right one...even the clicking alone would make you feel like you definitely typed it in.

the "turn certain functions off" thing sounds like a good idea, mainly the search, but i don't see how/why you would turn off the verify or score...I've never personally participated in a scrabble tournament, but i wouldn't imagine that they would let anyone personally use something like this to verify words, or even just to keep score for that matter...even if they did, i couldn't see verifying anything unless a challenge is made, in which case the other person or a judge should look it up.

nipil I'd love to test out the new scoring function if you want to post the updated version :D

Mythran wrote:

hey takieda, I agree with you with some things, but i think i disagree with you as well :P

I'm not speaking for nipil in any way, but i didnt really think that the scoring function would score words for you automatically, but more keep a running total of each person's score, while you calculated the individual word's score yourself...it would be very difficult, and in my opinion, more work to have to tell it which letters are on triple letter squares and such, than it would to just add them in your head and type in the total to add it to your score..no offense, but there doesn't seem to be much point to me in playing the actual game vs a computer scrabble game if everything is being automated.

Sorry if I was unclear earlier, but I'm basing a lot of what I said on a, perhaps poor, understanding of his scoring system. Your idea is probably a LOT more meritable than mine in that regard. I also very much agree that it does detract from the game, and would even slow things down, but I've never been one to turn down options that are well implemented :)

Quote:

Also, as far as eliminating letters used or making possible words with diminishing tile counts, it would be extremely hard to give accurate conclusions as to which tiles are still available, because of word placement on the board..if someone uses a z, it doesn't automatically take the z out of the list. if the last letter of, say, ZEBRA was used to connect this word to another, the person used the z, but it is still available for others to make words off of...if you selected z, q, j, and k more than 3 times to make words, I don't see any reason anyone would actually do that for real...secondly, while I understand that you cant possibly have words like that, it also doesn't make any sense to have to worry about that in a real game.

This is a very good point, and I think I retract my previous statement about removing letters from the pool of letters.. Letters are ALWAYS usable on the board, even if they don't appear to be :)

But it does give rise to another idea... two sets of letters. One which is the current rack, which we constantly update as the game goes by (assuming one DS per person), and the other is a test rack, that we can throw random letters on to see if we can create words off of the boards letters. That way, if we have most of the letters of a word, BUT don't realize it, we can throw in a couple of extra letters that are ON the board, and just happen to be near a triple word score or something else useful.

Quote:

one thing that might be good though, which could later be an option to turn on and off, could be the use of the letter points in the search, putting the higher base value words at the top, and working down alphabetically.

I VERY much like this idea, especially the ability to turn it off at some points. My favorite strategy is to go for small points, while choking the board and making it nearly unplayable for others. As such, this method wouldn't prove very useful for me during those times, at which I could turn it off.

An addendum to that idea would be something of this accord: Have several criteria for sorting, including point totals, word lengths, starting letter, ending letter, etc... Gotta be careful though, at some point this becomes prohibitively complex (I'm sure Nipil will choose properly, I'm just talking about my own meanderings in these thoughts).

Quote:

the "turn certain functions off" thing sounds like a good idea, mainly the search, but i don't see how/why you would turn off the verify or score...I've never personally participated in a scrabble tournament, but i wouldn't imagine that they would let anyone personally use something like this to verify words, or even just to keep score for that matter...even if they did, i couldn't see verifying anything unless a challenge is made, in which case the other person or a judge should look it up.

Part of that idea is based on additional functions being added, but also part of it is based on other forms of the game. One houserule we like to play is based entirely on dialects, another is on how real we can make a word sound (i.e. if someone challenges a word we create, then we have to create a plausible enough definition, pronunciation, and perhaps even etymology, and if it doesn't pass with everyone else, then the word is taken off - look up sloblock sometime :) As a result, verify isn't really needed. But I suppose at that point, it also wouldn't be "deviously" used, and thusly even if it was on, wouldn't be an issue... so yes, turning off Search, at this point, is the only real option that should be implemented, IMHO.

And thanks for agreeing with me on some points. I'm never quite sure if my ideas have any merit until someone else says they do. I always wonder if they simply sound good to me, but in the real world would be completely useless.
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First, I want to personally thank takieda and Mythran for their long winded, creative posts on their obsessions with Scrabble. I no longer feel like such a freak with my last post about this being a great potential for DS homebrew. :o)

I agree with both of them that there should be some type of "validation" when using the stylus on the screen.

The thing I don't get it is why everyone is so firmly attached to the game Scrabble.

In Scrabble, a good portion has to do with what you're afforded and what can be done with the tiles that have been randomly given to you. Not only is it not that friendly when trying to play as a socially dynamic, multiplayer experience, but in the end game, the speed of play can slow down to almost a halt. To me, Scrabble has too many moments of intense seriousness and thought that takes away most of the fun and enjoyment.

You can't really even measure how you think compared to someone else because they will never be subject to the same situations as you will have during a game.

In Conundrum, it's all an equal playing field. It cuts right to the chase and basically shows you how you think in relation to others. If you believe that everyone will come up with the same exact word each and every round, you're completely mistaken. It honestly is amazing how all of us individually makes decisions based on what we know, what we think we might know, and what type of risks we're willing to take on something that we're not sure of.

If you ever are given an opportunity to play Conundrum with friends, family, or even co-workers... if you're talkative, fun, and creative with attitude, you'll see how all of the people I've played against find this so entertaining.

The gameplay is fast, the end game is the exact same speed as the first round, unlike Scrabble, so you'll hear more requests of "rubbermatches" after it's over.

For me and my friends, we usually break the game out while watching sporting events on TV. We play it "hot potato" on my GBA lite. So once a person is done, we close the Gameboy and throw it to the next player in the room. And yes, my GBA has some horrible, searing scars because of our drunken recklessness. :o)

The last player for every round "the anchor" usually tells everyone what each of all of our words were and typically throws in some type of value judgment against the dumbest moron who tried to pass off "tofukid" as a real word.

Okay, enough with me already. I'll end with this... It's the only game that I know of at least, that chicks love to play over and over again. My fellow female co-workers, friends, family, and even my wife laugh and have a great time with this and none of them are even gamers.

So, I'm not sure if there was a point to this post.

Crap. And I thought I had something important to say. :o)

Very quick update (i'm at work, and don't have time for a full answer) :

- i wasn't aware of the bug, thanks for reporting it. no$gba's Error Pane (F3) shows that errors are detected, which is an indication of potential bugs. I was planning to, and delayed it, but i just ordered the debugger version of no$gba. Hopefully i'll get it soon, and i could get a better insight on how my code behaves.

- i currently have about 7 components. during developpement, i tested the way they work really extensively, so they give valid results, but couldn't check what they do, so it seems bugs hide somewhere. Now i'll get a debugger, i should get more insight.

- "38" result list is because i can only display 40 entries at a time. As i'm adding a blank entry between each similair-size-word-block, you often get around 37.

I don't know what will be the next thing i do, but surely i'll answer on the "ideas" tonight when i have more time. Concerning the next scheduled release, i can't give any clue as to when, because these bugs make me unhappy.

Opus wrote:

I'm not sure if there was a point to this post.

There was one.

As i see it, Conundrum is a word-game aimed at having fun while providing sizable and homogenous competition between players. You can aim at beating your opponents, and the "difficulty" that appears from getting tricky letters disappear, as everyone has the same input.
Interactive game, equal competition, global achievement, based on wordlist capacities

As i see it, Scrabble is a word-game aimed at having fun in a more serious way, where competition is based on beating your own brain. Although you can aim at beating the other players, the biased-letters thing prevents a fair fight. Basically, you try to get the best from your brain, and your final scores reflects your personnal achievement better than your end-rank. And you have opponents to get some fun, as they don't really matter except for adding word-placement randomness.
Non-interactive game, biased competition, self-achievement, based on wordlist capacities and placement research

That's just my point of view ;)

Opus wrote:

First, I want to personally thank takieda and Mythran for their long winded, creative posts on their obsessions with Scrabble. I no longer feel like such a freak with my last post about this being a great potential for DS homebrew. :o)

I'm sure just about everyone that has played it more than once has had some kind of small obsession or fixation with it...i go through phases, and coincidentally, i found this awesome app during one of those phases :)

I've never actually heard of conundrum before this thread...i'm going to research it more and see if i can find something to download or play online..if its just as fun as you say it is, i'm sure i'll love it

Opus wrote:

...in the end game, the speed of play can slow down to almost a halt. To me, Scrabble has too many moments of intense seriousness and thought that takes away most of the fun and enjoyment.

here i really dont agree...at least from my experience and the people i play with, its more like chess..you can spend all day trying to discover the perfect play, but you need to do it eventually...we all try to keep it going, while keeping the time down..the slowness and seriousness of it doesn't take away from the fun at all for me...the anticipation of getting the spot taken for your killer word can be pretty intense sometimes. :)

lately my girlfriend and i have been going to this little cozy tavern, finding a good table, playing scrabble (using the scrabble assistant of course) and having a few beers..its relaxing, fun, and challenging. i'm not saying conundrum wouldn't be exciting and more social, but i also think there's a time and place for both.

nipil wrote:

I don't know what will be the next thing i do, but surely i'll answer on the "ideas" tonight when i have more time. Concerning the next scheduled release, i can't give any clue as to when, because these bugs make me unhappy.

no hurry, i'm just getting excited :)

[edit] hah, during another long winded response, nipil pretty much said what i wanted

nipil wrote:

Non-interactive game, biased competition, self-achievement, based on wordlist capacities and placement research

i agree, but they arent too biased...your opponent might get the first throw on those high point letters, but you can always capitalize on it after they put them down

Mythran wrote:

i agree, but they arent too biased...

By "biased" i just meant that each player's chance weren't perfectly equal.

Ok, i have some spare time now to analyze and answer your ideas :

- graphics. User interface.
The minimalist user interface was primarily meant to interact with the core functions and develop/test them. The UI is a first "it's easy to code and it just works (TM)" implementation and, while the minimalistic spirit will stay, i'll refactor it so you get a better feeling.
=> OK, will be done.

- graphics. More than 38 anagrams.
In fact more than a page of 40. I thought 40 words were enough to choose from, but i forgot it could be interesting to see all possible words (search process could find all, just a display/speed choice)
=> OK, will be done.

- graphics. Bigger letters/tiles with boundary, visual feedback.
Right now, there's a 7px radius-wide circular area aroud the letter's center for you to click on. While i'm not willing to use a larger font (or am i?), the tiles could be made larger with a visual hint you clicked.
=> OK, will be done.

- graphics. Display point values on tiles.
I'd have to make a second tiny font (about 5px high), and i'm not really willing to ;)
=> NOP.

- graphics. Hide letters/numbers.
This is in fact already implemented, as you can't use one or the others according to the function selected. I was just too lazy to hide them accordingly.
=> OK, will be done.

- graphics. Finger-pushable buttons/tiles.
It all depends on the organization and how i manage to fit everything on the touchscreen without it looking too cluttered. But this is no priority, polished look is more important in my eyes. And fingerprints on my beloved DS, ugh, Never !
=> OK, will still try to ;)

- engine. Only allow "so many tiles".
As said in a previous post, can't be truly reliable.
=> NOP.

- graphics. Validation button like "OK".
Too bad, i liked the idea of a dual-use button, it seemed to me like a good way to unclutter the interface. Same reasonning i had when i chose not to display any border on letter tiles.
=> OK, will be done as an optionnal setting.

- engine. Turn some functions on and off.
I agree it could be useful, but the circumstances where it's use would be a real plus are too narrow; plus i only provide 3 functions, removing one seems a bit odd to me ;)
=> NOP

- sound. Adding a click sound.
Goes with the visual improvement suggestions. I just need to learn how to use sound (which isn't complicated afaik)
=> OK, will be done.

- engine. Reset support. What on earth are you talking about ?

- internet. Search thesaurus, online resources, updates, pronounciation.
Good ideas. Getting definitions would be nice. Updates is out of question due to the 'reference' characteristics of each included word list : If one of these is updated, it's easier for everyone if i just make a new release. Pronounciation seems like a gadjet to me, though it's nice idea of course. I'm always thinking i terms of "added-value" vs. "work needed". The definition thing yields a higher value than the pronounciation : if i get far enough to one day provide internet connectivity, definitions would be top priority, and the rest would probably be put aside.
=> NOP, not in a real future.

- engine. Score calculation.
I thought the screenshot confirmed it, but i realized the output wasn't clear about what was input. So yes, the score calculation is only doing running totals for each player. It manages 1-6 players, due to screen width restriction, for a good readability. I still have to figure a way to account for the endgame +/- calculations. But i'll manage it.
=> OK, is almost done.

- graphics. Left-handed friendly.
Says it all.
=> OK, will be done.

- engine. Show word "base" score in the search output.
While it is quite easy to implement, there's a drawback: each version of the game applies different values to each letter. I would need to get the values for the english version, as i only have a french version. Looking at how motivated you are, this shouldn't be a problem. Second point is that it eats visual space, but combined with paged output, this should be no real problem.
=> OK, will be done.

- graphics. Various sorting options.
Length and Points seem to be the most obvious ones. First and last letters are a good idea, i'll look into it.
=> OK, will be done.

- engine. More than one rack, add extra letters.
As i understand it, nothing keeps you from entering the word you want and switch from verify to search (input isn't cleared), and adding "potential" letters to search again, and removing these last letter using the back arrow. If there's more to your suggestion, i don't really get it.
=> OK, is already done.

Wow. That was long ! My prios are : bug-correction, score-calculations, and UI refinement. In that order.

When i read what i just typed, you can safely think that what's marked as "OK" will be implemented. I honestly don't think i'll go further and further to implement non-essential functions, as i have plenty of other ideas for various projects, and i don't want to stop for too long on a single one. My habit is usualy to lead my current project to the point where i've done all i wanted to, including "simple" suggestions from other people. When that's done, and there's no bug left, i'm always tempted to make a 1.0 final version, and move on.

But as of today, there's still quite a long way to go ;)

nipil wrote:

- engine. Only allow "so many tiles".
As said in a previous post, can't be truly reliable.
=> NOP.

I revised my original idea after Mythran mentioned this. I'm not sure if you're talking about the revised idea or its original, so I'll clarify. He did mention the inconsistency of remaining letters, plus letters on the board, which killed the idea to remove letters from a pool, but:

There should still only be allowed the option of using the letters that are actually in the game. Same as having a dictionary with words greater than 15 letters long, in Scrabble it's impossible, so would words using more letters than there are in the game.

Quote:

- engine. Turn some functions on and off.
I agree it could be useful, but the circumstances where it's use would be a real plus are too narrow; plus i only provide 3 functions, removing one seems a bit odd to me ;)
=> NOP

The use is that having the search feature always on kills the ability to have this tool during tournaments.. Searches are not allowed, and Verify is ONLY allowed during challenges. So I still think it'd be useful to be able to turn off Search on program startup, so that people don't abuse it during a game.

Quote:

- engine. Reset support. What on earth are you talking about ?

Basically a soft reset, as opposed to a hard reset on the system. A soft reset will bring you back to the menu of the cart you're using, like the M3, or Supercard menus, etc.

Quote:

- internet. Search thesaurus, online resources, updates, pronounciation.
=> NOP, not in a real future.

This was just an idea, of course. Wishful thinking :) and I certainly understanding your reasoning for not allowing it.

Quote:

- engine. Show word "base" score in the search output.
While it is quite easy to implement, there's a drawback: each version of the game applies different values to each letter. I would need to get the values for the english version, as i only have a french version. Looking at how motivated you are, this shouldn't be a problem. Second point is that it eats visual space, but combined with paged output, this should be no real problem.
=> OK, will be done.

I have to head to work here in just a minute, so I won't be able to get the tile values to you for at least 10 hours or so, but if Mythran doesn't beat me to it, I'll get them to you later tonight, lest something else stops me.

Quote:

- engine. More than one rack, add extra letters.
As i understand it, nothing keeps you from entering the word you want and switch from verify to search (input isn't cleared), and adding "potential" letters to search again, and removing these last letter using the back arrow. If there's more to your suggestion, i don't really get it.
=> OK, is already done.

The problems when the current method are: when you click on Score, it erases it (which you may have already fixed, I don't know). In order to verify a word, you have to remove tiles from your "rack" that you would otherwise use in search, and then when you want to go back to search, you have to readd those letters. Simply having a rack of tiles seperate from a verify field would help with that.

Quote:

Wow. That was long ! My prios are : bug-correction, score-calculations, and UI refinement. In that order.

I just want to thank you (I know I sound like criticism somewhere in that post) for what you've created here. It is a nearly essential tool that has never been afforded to any scrabble player, and will get put to some heavy use now, at least in "my neck of the woods." (yes, I grew up in a rural area).
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takieda wrote:

I know I sound like criticism somewhere in that post.

Don't worry, i didn't even notice it ;) Anyway, i summed things up so you all get a better view of what i will do, and what i wont. That doesn't mean it'll ever be impossible to add features, but i won't do these myself. As you might have seen on my website (which i have to put back up, and on which i'm workin on at the same time as my other projects), i always release my source code under GPL when i stop working on a specific project.

takieda, its funny you thought i might beat you to the letter point value thing...here they are..

A-1 B-3 C-3 D-2 E-1 F-4
G-2 H-4 I-1 J-8 K-5 L-1
M-3 N-1 O-1 P-3 Q-10 R-1
S-1 T-1 U-1 V-4 W-4 X-8
Y-4 Z-10

[edit]
i got this from here
if anyone wants to know or need a citation..i did double check these to make sure they were right as well.

Last edited by Mythran on Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:39 am; edited 3 times in total

Thanks for the info.

French version is (source) :
A,E,I,L,N,O,R,S,T,U : 1 point
D,G,M : 2 points
B,C,P : 3 points
F,H,V : 4 points
J,Q : 8 points
K,W,X,Y,Z : 10 points

cool...i guess I've never thought about them having different point values, but i guess they would have to, with varying letter frequencies.

be sure to keep us updated :)

Mythran wrote:

be sure to keep us updated :)

I tested all of my components. I rewrote parts or all of them. Reorganized the code, had each run into a randomized stress test, and nogba's error pane was stuck at 0 errors, so i guess my code should be bullet-proof again. Now i'm working on the UI layout on paper, to get it right.

nipil wrote:

nogba's error pane was stuck at 0 errors, so i guess my code should be bullet-proof again. Now i'm working on the UI layout on paper, to get it right.

sounds like it's coming along nicely :)

Info update: after analyzing and testing dozens of UI candidates,
i decided on these ones. Here are some screenshots (only for
the "touchscreen" part):

Outdated screenshots removed

As you can see, the following points are have already been addressed:
- visual: grey square is visual click feedback
- visual: green shows active function/option
- visual: validation/ok button
- visual: bigger, finger-friendly touch-zone (i don't advocate it)
- data: Up/Dw are paging buttons, used for score & search
- visual: Hide letters/numbers when not appropriate
- visual: back to "landscape" mode, which is left handed friendly
- data: search with sort options (alpha, score, length)

New/Undo/End are respectively used to start a new game, undo the last
scoring validation (for error-correction) and "End" enables to enter
negative scores when the game is finished (to account for the letters
players didn't manage to place).

I hope i can release the next version by monday evening.

PS: Colors are not firmly decided yet, but are valid hints.

PPS: I can't seriously put borders around letters, it's too ugly.
Anyway, noone should have any trouble clicking the letters now,
even using my own fingers, i can touch and control everything ;)

Last edited by nipil on Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

hey, looks like it's come a long way.

nipil wrote:

visual: back to "landscape" mode, which is left handed friendly

you didn't really have to do that, i mean it might be nice still for me being left handed, but all i was asking was that if it wasnt too difficult to put a function that just flipped everything the other way so i could still hold it "brain age" style...this will still be less cumbersome, but you didnt have to change your design entirely :P

other than that, maybe a slightly lighter color for the selection so you can still clearly read the tab, (not that you'd really need to after using the program a few times), and no big deal w/ the letter borders..if the space to click is slightly bigger for each letter, that should be perfect.

everything else looks great...keep up the good work :)

I've just spent the better part of the evening working on something of a skin for your new UI... It's FAR from anywhere near complete (I've got a LOT of things to clean up to make it more readable, etc..), and it's not even to the point where I want to put it on my DS and look at it through Moonshell (to tweak colors et al). However, it DOES show a bit of where I'm going with my ideas for colors, wood textures, etc... and how they *could* look, despite their current hideous nature.

At this point, I've GOT to stop messin' about and watch a show or two with the missus before heading to bed, so I'll leave you with a picture of my current progress (assuming one could call it progress).

[Images not permitted - Click here to view it]

Effectively, all the letters need to be enlarged, but no squares around them, or points should show unless the letter is clicked. It then sends the letter to the top "rack." I intend to clean everything up till it's as readable as I can make it, and, should you be interested in implementing any of it Nipil, I'll provide you with all graphical source, etc... (assuming I haven't made your stomach turn).

I do intend to replace all the buttons rest of the buttons with graphics that fit with the theme I'm going for... I may even end up having to take some seriously high detail shots of my scrabble setup to get the right coloration and textures to make everything look a LOT better than it is... but at the least it *should* give people an idea of what I'm going for.

P.S. as it stands the SKIN is obtrusive, in the end it will be much more toned down and simply give it that classic Scrabble look. The look is always secondary to functionality and I will make sure it follows that ideal.

P.P.S. if you don't intend to implement anything like this, Nipil, at least tell me you're going to allow for skinning? (though that would, in its current state, require skinners to build the app, as there's no dldi... hmm... well just thinking into the future I spose).
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Mythran wrote:

this will still be less cumbersome, but you didnt have to change your design entirely

Don't worry, i drew about two dozens layout candidates, for both portrait and landscape, and i found this one to be the most functional.

Mythran wrote:

slightly lighter color for the selection

"PS: Colors are not firmly decided yet, but are valid hints." ie. selection will be green, but i dunno yet which tint of green. Or any other color you advice, as long as it can be pale and non-flashy.

takieda wrote:

I've just spent the better part of the evening working on something of a skin for your new UI

Nice work ! It already looks good :-)

takieda wrote:

P.P.S. if you don't intend to implement anything like this, Nipil, at least tell me you're going to allow for skinning? (though that would, in its current state, require skinners to build the app, as there's no dldi... hmm... well just thinking into the future I spose).

You're right, at the current state and for the next version (0.6), there will be no skinning available, as i'm prefering to add functionnalities and make robust code before anything else. And that way, you can still use it fully while waiting for graphics enhancements.

And even it there were nicer graphics, you'd still need to rebuild the app to change it (i'm not willing to provide source code until i consider the application ok, or stop working on it. Nothing about privacy or closed source, but i never release code before 1.0, as 0.x is "work-in-progress". Another reason why there's no bitmap skins is based on how i currently do my rendering : I'm using 8bit 8x8 tiled BG0 to draw the buttons' background, modifying the texture map by hand using 5 tiles ; and BG3 is used to display the font text and other things like score lines... In this current state, i'm NOT using sprites. Which could (or should) have been done for ages, but that way i didn't have to create/draw/load tile images, and for the minimalistic/talentless approach, i didn't need it ;) And i like using backgrounds and modify tile maps.

But you could safely think that in the following (0.7) version, i would start playing with DLDI features. I was reluctant at first, because i wanted to learn how to use the DS, and it's easier/safer when everything is embedded. Once that's done, of course yes, loading things (skins/wordlists) dynamically would be nice. Only drawback so far afaik is that DLDI adds more complex support, as i'd have to care for different linker-carts (or not ? i wouldn't like to be forced to use cart-conditionnal code, ie i don't want to test and write custom support for each cart)

Concerning skinning, what i could do in version 0.7 is using BG0 as lesser background, then use BG3 for text display, and use 32x32 sprites (one per letter/button, and two for larger buttons (like functions, options...) That way, applying skins would become easier. So basically, one image per 32x32 button (which is 1k mem per sprite), or two for 64x32 button, plus a 256x192 background (64k) all using 8-bit colors with the same palette ! My basic advice to skin creators would be that you make a unique image with all the buttons and backgrounds (to ensure palette is unique), and the engine would load the button parts from it... When i release 0.7, i'll provide a sample skin for you to use as placement hint. I think you get what i mean ; if not, think about the way quake (afaik) or others were doing it : all the textural content for a model was drawn on a single square image, and the game mapped the texture coords to the right places.

Sincerly, skinning was not my priority, but as many games/apps look better with talented graphics (which i don't have), i'd be glad to provide skin support if i manage it. So you can safely work on your UI skin, but be patient, as i am completely unable to provide you any hint on when 0.7 will be out.

nipil wrote:

Don't worry, i drew about two dozens layout candidates, for both portrait and landscape, and i found this one to be the most functional.

This orientation will still work great and, as it looks, is more optimal for the screen area

nipil wrote:

"PS: Colors are not firmly decided yet, but are valid hints." ie. selection will be green, but i dunno yet which tint of green. Or any other color you advice, as long as it can be pale and non-flashy.

I didn't mean to imply you were definitely using it...i did read that in your previous post, i was just giving a little feedback on that specific color

Mythran wrote:

i did read that in your previous post, i was just giving a little feedback on that specific color

No worries mate ;) It'll be blue (20,20,31) for selection and light red 31,15,15 for disabled buttons (takieda asked for, it was an easy 10 line of code ;). Its impressive how much time i can waste for trivial color considerations... I played with gimp for about 25 mins to decide on the colors, hehe

takieda wrote:

bug first, ideas second:
If, when you first start the program and put in seven letters, then press Search, then Verify twice, then Search twice

WHO DOES THIS!!!

was he just sitting there going "hmm, what if i just press this a thousand times..." Does he think that is the best use of his time? Because if it is i only WISH i was that guy.

Sure, get all the bug testing you want done but seriously...

(on a side note, thanks for your tenacity at finding all the bugs that you do, we as the consumer appreciate it)
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nipil wrote:

I played with gimp for about 25 mins to decide on the colors, hehe

hehe I'm glad I'm not the only one

btw, those numbers rgb? i just threw them into photoshop and got very dark (almost black) blue and red

lord_hardware wrote:

(on a side note, thanks for your tenacity at finding all the bugs that you do, we as the consumer appreciate it)

Ahah, maybe you can call it "tenacity". To me it's just a way not to lose my time chasing bugs. In fact, to ensure i don't have to think about what's already been coded. I design a component, test all functions thoroughly, then i can be sure that if something i just coded elsewhere blows up, this component isn't faulty. That's a load of time gained for little efforts, anyway, it's a deeply-rooted habit caused by about 15 years or programming (i'm 27 if you wonder ;) And there's nothing better than an empty bug tracker, you can focus on features !

Mythran wrote:

btw, those numbers rgb?

These are 15-bit RGB so namely 0RRRRRGGGGGBBBBB.
Namely do a "component * 8" to get values in image editor.

lord_hardware wrote:

takieda wrote:

bug first, ideas second:
If, when you first start the program and put in seven letters, then press Search, then Verify twice, then Search twice

WHO DOES THIS!!!

was he just sitting there going "hmm, what if i just press this a thousand times..." Does he think that is the best use of his time? Because if it is i only WISH i was that guy.

Sure, get all the bug testing you want done but seriously...

(on a side note, thanks for your tenacity at finding all the bugs that you do, we as the consumer appreciate it)

You should see the stuff I've done for developers who DON'T frequent forums like these... I think it's my way of fanboying off these devs, because I have NO coding ability whatsoever... at best I do batch scripting and, as I've been told, have scared a couple of assembler programmers with the batch scripts I've done (70k file to replace a single line of typed text, among others).

Personally, I do it because it interests me... I stumbled across the bug and decided I had to reproduce it repeatedly to know what caused it... took me a few tries after I did it the first time, but managed to get it to repeat.. Though I'm still not sure why it randomly seems to stop crashing for a long time (even after restarts it doesn't crash, give it a day, then the crashes begin to reappear, all because of that Search, Verify, Verify, Search, Search combo).
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takieda wrote:

give it a day, then the crashes begin to reappear, all because of that Search, Verify, Verify, Search, Search combo).

i read this earlier, and thought the same as lord_hardware at first, but then i thought well, you might actually do that in a game of scrabble...maybe.

does it crash when you repeatedly hit those without changing the letters? if so, then yea, why would you do that? but if it crashes when searching, then inputing a searched word, verifying twice, then, possibly searching a new given tile set withouht doing anything in between...lol oh well..i do agree that its a bug that should be taken care of, but it just confused me on why anyone would do that in the first place.

on the other hand, i don't really have much of a right saying that, as i'm very new to the whole coding/homebrew thing, but i did have a "wtf?" reaction to it

ps: sorry if that was more confusing than it should have been

Mythran wrote:

takieda wrote:

give it a day, then the crashes begin to reappear, all because of that Search, Verify, Verify, Search, Search combo).

i read this earlier, and thought the same as lord_hardware at first, but then i thought well, you might actually do that in a game of scrabble...maybe.

does it crash when you repeatedly hit those without changing the letters? if so, then yea, why would you do that? but if it crashes when searching, then inputing a searched word, verifying twice, then, possibly searching a new given tile set withouht doing anything in between...lol oh well..i do agree that its a bug that should be taken care of, but it just confused me on why anyone would do that in the first place.

on the other hand, i don't really have much of a right saying that, as i'm very new to the whole coding/homebrew thing, but i did have a "wtf?" reaction to it

ps: sorry if that was more confusing than it should have been

part of the reason to find bugs isn't to find reasons why the bug would be repeated, but to find how to repeat the bug to begin with. I was testing the way the buttons worked at the time, as I kept thinking that just pressing the button once should have done something (whereas pressing it twice is what was needed), and I came across the bug. Obviously in its current context it's complete nonsense and wouldn't be replicated in any real sort of fashion, however, it is the numerous ways that it *could* happen, replicating the same scenario that causes the crash, that are reason enough to find the bug and eliminate it.

(edit - sorry for sounding like a snob there, I'm sure you know about bug checking and the whys, et al. For some reason my brain said to respond seriously...)

That, and, well, honestly I didn't even bother attempting to change the letters throughout the test, except to see if the bug could be repeated by choosing a different seven letters to start... heh... now I'm curious about testing it while changing the letters through the combo, heh :)
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well i did and do understand bug checking and the why's, and trying to replicate them to figure out the problem..i was just saying the way it was stated originally, the first image that popped into my head was someone rapidly pushing all the buttons they could to see if they could make it crash...it was almost comical...i sat there like "why?" my reaction was more one of the end user and not of a developer...I'm still trying to make that transition, so I'm sorry if i sounded like an idiot when i said that.

Just for info, i have a pair of code lines in my main() function which simulate random typing (simulate touch somewhere, treat the event, and rince and repeat forever). I consider it a cheap way of do the "random" checking you're talking about, and i can run this stress-test on both the emulator and the DS itself. So far it hasn't brought up any error in nosgba, not any crash on the console. That's far from being perfect, but that's something useful, and more important to me, doesn't cost any effort nor any time ;)

I wasn't able to release v06 this week-end, it'll around this week.

UPDATE: Release v0.6 (2008-01-28)
- added scoring function (1-9 players)
- added scoring log paging
- added scoring new/undo functions
- added negative scoring optin (for endgame)
- added compressed list, word length 2-15 for all
- added search result paging (900 results)
- added search result sorting (length, points, alpha)
- added search/check custom-lock combination
- major UI refactoring, with sound, finger-friendly

nipil wrote:

UPDATE: Release v0.6 (2008-01-28)
- added scoring function (1-9 players)
- added scoring log paging
- added scoring new/undo functions
- added negative scoring optin (for endgame)
- added compressed list, word length 2-15 for all
- added search result paging (900 results)
- added search result sorting (length, points, alpha)
- added search/check custom-lock combination
- major UI refactoring, with sound, finger-friendly

FIRST POST!!! (sorry, heh, had to say it)... Thanks for this, I'm going to test this thoroughly in a few minutes :) (and by thoroughly, I mean I shall randomly press buttons for four hours straight ;-p)

edit - after a few minutes of testing, a few ideas spring to mind. First of all, thanks for the option to turn search off, but check should still be allowable in that method. Also, it should be an option only editable at startup, keeping people from "inadvertently" turning it on and off again. That way, the only way they could change to search mode would be to restart, and kill the current gamescore, thus making it obvious to everyone that it's been done. (after reading the readme, I realized that you can turn them on and off with a sort of "password" by hitting a button combination. However, after trying it several times in the SOWPODS version, I haven't been able to get any combination to work. Hitting L+R always unlocks, no matter what combination I seem to hit.)

The three methods of sorting work well, but it would be nice to have them sort on button press, i.e. when you hit "Length, it autosorts the list by length", rather than having to research with that option on. Not a big deal, but it would speed things up a bit (not having to go through a search again). Also, perhaps having an ascending, descending option for Alpha, and Length, as having a list that's several pages long gets tedious when you're looking for words that start with Z. ( I can't think of a reason for ascending, descending for any other method but Alpha). This feature could perhaps be implemented by just clicking on the button again, and showing an arrow pointing up, or down (toggles between the two when you press the button).

The button pressing works a charm, very easy to use fingers now, but the click is nearly inaudible. A smidge louder, or the ability (when you implement skinning) to add your own sound would be nice (or perhaps I'm just deaf? Anyone else have a problem with the volume?

THANK you for adding a seperate store of letters for search and check. A reference to both simultaneously would be nice though. (like some window that shows "rack" when you're on Check, and have it change to "current word" when you're on Search. Just an aesthetic thought more than anything else. What's currently there is very functional.

Perhaps some hints as to how to start the new game. I had to read the readme to find this out, which everyone should do anyway, BUT, when you're handing it off to someone else to be "scorekeeper" and they can't figure out how to do a new game... would get annoying. Basically, as you have the room for it, having a line that says, "Select the number of players, then New to start a new game. Some method for starting a new game that's a bit safer than just hitting a number and hitting New. (basically just adding a safeguard like, "Are you sure? yes/no")

I've tried several times to end a game, and it never seems to do anything but add more score to the last player. Is this how it's supposed to function? If this is true, then the SA never actually sees it as an ended game. If a true endgame function is implemented, it could also be used to start a new game, thereby elminating the need for the above safety. New Games could then only be created after a game has been ended. Considering some of my friends, we'd also need a way to stop the game midway, as I've played some who wish to start the game anew after several poor racks.

I have to head back to work at this point. I hope I'm not sounding too demanding - once again just suggestions :) This is certainly a vast improvement over the last one and VERY close to being a tool that I think even official Scrabble Tournaments would allow.

**edit again** I just figured out the method you designed for ending a game, using negative numbers one by one for each player... heh, no clue why that didn't dawn on me as I messed with it. Still though, having a way to say the game is ended and no further tallying can be done would be good, as well as having a game ended being a requirement for a New Game, or at least a prompt for whether or not you want to create a new game.
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I changed the top-screen text which is displayed when you enter the score function for the first time : now it gives a hint on how to create a game. I didn't even think about it before. I guess that's what users are used for ;) I updated the zips and didn't change the versioning, as very few people would have downloaded it in the past minutes. I even guess you'll be the only one who'll need to get it again :P Nothing else has been changed. Maybe next time i'll post a temporary link to a beta build, so i can get some feedback prior to releasing a milestone build.

Concerning sound, the inner volume is set to 127 (the max). With the DS sound slider to the max, i can clearly hear it. Well it's not too noisy in here, but still. Anyway, if you need a more distinct sound, i can use Q2 blaster sound ! *smile*

I'll give my thoughts on your (and possibly others') functionnal feedback tomorrow , when i have some time. But i'm already pleased there's someone who likes it.

Edit: Lots o' typos, i'm tired ;)

nice..i'm also going to have to get the updated one w/ the new game info on the screen, as i've downloaded and have been playing with this new one for a little while now, but havent gotten a chance to post until now.

first off, this is a huge improvement on the last, and i think it's pretty much near anything i would want or expect a program like this to be...i haven't come across any bugs, but i havent gotten a chance to test it that thoroughly...just enough to play with all of the new functions...the only thing i was gonna ask about was player naming, but that shouldn't be any more difficult to keep track of than what color piece you are in a board game...again great work :D

takieda wrote:

after a few minutes of testing, a few ideas spring to mind. First of all, thanks for the option to turn search off, but check should still be allowable in that method

i totally agree with this...i thought that the check function was almost the sole purpose of this app, so it seemed kind of wierd to turn it off. it's perfect for challenging in casual or tournament play. the password method worked great though, and i don't think its something anyone would figure out..and even if they did, you could just make sure they touch the ds w/ the stylus only in tournament play..you'll be sitting right in front of them, so they wouldn't be able to cheat with the button commands

takieda wrote:

...the click is nearly inaudible. A smidge louder, or the ability (when you implement skinning) to add your own sound would be nice (or perhaps I'm just deaf? Anyone else have a problem with the volume?

i can hear it fine, on both my ds lite and my regular ds

takieda wrote:

However, after trying it several times in the SOWPODS version, I haven't been able to get any combination to work. Hitting L+R always unlocks, no matter what combination I seem to hit.)

the way you set a specific button combo is:

1. press and hold L
2. press and hold any other buttons you want in the combo
3. while holding all them, press R

you then have to hit all of the buttons you pressed to unlock it(including L), with R being the last

[edit] I wouldn't think anything would be different in either english version besides the word list, but i'm using the twl version

[edit2] btw nipil, i saw a typo on your scrabble ds site..the 2nd line of the main body text says:
Scrabble Assistant DS is a utility program designed to run on the Nintendo DS plateform.

Mythran wrote:

i can hear it fine, on both my ds lite and my regular ds

I've asked 3 people so far, none of whom can hear it until I put it within about six inches from their ear... Everything else on my DS sounds fine, from what I can tell (unless with full volume things should be deafeningly loud or something). Perhaps just a sound with a much louder initial sound, then an option to turn up or down the volume of that sound?

Mythran wrote:

the way you set a specific button combo is:

1. press and hold L
2. press and hold any other buttons you want in the combo
3. while holding all them, press R

you then have to hit all of the buttons you pressed to unlock it(including L), with R being the last

Thanks for that! All this time I've been misinterpreting it. I thought I was supposed to hold L, then hit the buttons in sequence (but without holding any of them) then hit R then let go of L and R, then repeat the sequence. Didn't realize I had to hold all the buttons simultaneously. This should suffice, I think. I'll have to ask the guys that run the scrabble games whether or not that should be permissible. I'll just have to make sure I do some really weird, 7 button combo to be completely sure noone else sees what I've done.

Mythran wrote:

[edit] I wouldn't think anything would be different in either english version besides the word list, but i'm using the twl version

I wouldn't either, but there's always the *slight* chance that an issue with memory could be causing a bug, or... something else I'm completely unfamiliar with. I always say what version of whatever I'm running when I report bugs.
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General note: As you have seen, i've updated the binaries without changing the version naming. Until i release v0.7, there will be no new function implemented, only tweaking and bug-fixing. Each time i do something like this, i'll update the archives on the website, and only the changelog will show what version you're using. This saves me a lot of hassle about updating the news linking on other places (i was scared at the number of hits a google search returned). So basically, version 06a, 06b etc. will always be the same link to v06 zips, and new/returning users will get the latest version without any questionning. Thanks for your understanding.

Mythran wrote:

i thought that the check function was almost the sole purpose of this app, so it seemed kind of wierd to turn it off.

Well, i wasn't planning to lock out anything before the idea rose on the forum ;)
I'll update the program, so you can lock "Check" and/or "Search" individualy using two different key combinations.

Mythran wrote:

I wouldn't think anything would be different in either english version besides the word list, but i'm using the twl version

There's actually *nothing* different code-wise in any version. I just build the app three times using different lang.h (for text strings defines), letters.h (for letters value array) and wl.raw (compressed word list). As a consequence, there shouldn't be any bug difference from any version.

Besides, i fixed the website typo (in french it spells as "plateforme"... mixed both languages). Thanks for pointing it out.

takieda wrote:

I've asked 3 people so far, none of whom can hear it until I put it within about six inches from their ear...

I'm using some default OS sound file. I'll up the volume using Audacity or anything similar to modify my source wav file.

Mythran wrote:

I'll have to ask the guys that run the scrabble games whether or not that should be permissible. I'll just have to make sure I do some really weird, 7 button combo to be completely sure noone else sees what I've done.

Please do. As a matter of fact, there are 128 "standard" combinations, using the direction pad (8 different inputs) and A,B,X,Y (16 possible combinations). If you have octopussy's fingers, using start and select, and holding the pen down on the touchscreen, you can reach 1024, but i don't advocate its use since it's error prone (you don't have feedback on which combination was just registered to lock things out. I thought 128 combinations was enough, as it'd take quite a time to try them all, and it can't be done without being seen ;)

takieda wrote:

The three methods of sorting work well, but it would be nice to have them sort on button press, i.e. when you hit "Length, it autosorts the list by length", rather than having to research with that option on.

I though about it, of course. But the way i chose it to work is due to the search results being different depending on the sort method you used, so it's not a simple matter of sorting again to display.

Let me explain : you're searching for anagrams to "aeeaiithlssnn" (random junk). No wonder there will be more than 900 candidates (which is the maximum results that are stored. During the search operation, each and every candidate is added to the sort list. After each "add", if the list is full (it happens quite easily), the exceeding candidates with the lowest score are pop'ed out of the list.

That way, searching for "aeeaiithlssnn" would surely yield different output depending on the sort option, as the list is compiled differently. It's even "worse" with alpha-sorting, as all candidates have same "value", the least scoring candidates are virtually the ones with end-of-alphabet starting letters... There's no possible solution to this alpha-sort behaviour.

That's why you need to do a new "search" when you change the sort option, as new, interesting candidates, which weren't previously listed, could show up using another sort option.

One possible improvement i had seen (and discarded) was the following: i build the result-set using the sort option (gives the true candidates) ; i sort the result-list again when the sort option is changed ; the sort-again operation will not look for new candidates, it's only display. I didn't implement it, as there would be a different output/behaviour between "Search / Points" and "Search / Letters, swich to Points". I hope you get the idea, which is namely that a new search is more reliable (candidate wise) than simple sorting the result list again.

takieda wrote:

... seperate store of letters for search and check. A reference to both simultaneously would be nice though.

I don't get the idea. Could you detail ?

takieda wrote:

Some method for starting a new game that's a bit safer than just hitting a number and hitting New. (basically just adding a safeguard like, "Are you sure? yes/no")

Either a message with yes/no buttons, or any other way to give a confirmation. I'll try and add this.

takieda wrote:

I've tried several times to end a game .. I just figured out the method you designed for ending a game, using negative numbers one by one for each player...

For the first part of it, i could ask ironnically "Have you seen and 'end game' button ? What about simply looking at the score, and say who wins ?" :-) But i'll answer based on the second part of your sentence :

Point is, there are numerous ways of playing (and ending) a scrabble board game, some of which friends and me maybe "invented", or at least figured out together, and which I could detail :

- some dice-based mode, in which you have to add the dice-based number of letter (in a single word), picking an "as equal as possible" number of letters from each player's letter rack (ie for a 3 player game, and a 6 letter word, you would have to use 2 letters from each player rack, which are visible), or you get an awesome penalty (ie fixed or time-increasing negative score) if you don't manage to. Really fun, even with newcomers, as words are short and easy.

- some denial mode, where racks are visible, and opponents can try to "enhance the length/point" of your candidate word without changing the base-letter set it contains (namely, make a "better" word than you with the same letters + one/two of theirs) the one with the best point number gets to play next, and if you were countered (ie opponents enhanced your candidate, you don't earn anything but lose your letters (which are used to form the word on board).

- normal/denial variant , in which for each odd number you get a positive score, and if your word (or its enhanced version) gets an even score, you get a negative score. Tricky thing is that you're not allowed to visually test your candidate (or enhanced candidate) on board, and double/triple letter/words make it quite random and funny.

- Any of the above (preferably denial-variant), with a timed-round (30 to 90 seconds), and "K"ill events (if you draw the "K", put all your letters back to the bag, and your score is reset to 0). You get to play next, even if another player is already thinking/playing/countering. Game ends when there's an exact number of letters in the bag (10 to 20 letters, number decided beforehand) in the bag, to avoid the a "reset" series at end-game.

- Marathon game, normal game, in which on a sheet of paper you keep track of the base letter added on each turn (ie the exact letters a player placed on the board). When the letter bag is empty, you get to remove the exact letter that were placed on the 5 first turn, and put them back in the bag. Then each turn, the letters from the next "previous" word (ie, 6th, 7th, etc.) are removed from the board, and added to the bag. This way, the the board gets coninuously cleared and the game never really ends ; who "wins" is the top-scoring player after a given time has eslapsed since game start. You can throw in time-based turns for good measure.

- Any other you could think of, as long as it's fun and social and non-scrabble-freaks get fun too.

As you can see, there are lots of options to play with the base game. As a consequence, i focused on the very basics of scoring : adding positive and negative values, counting. I didn't include the "switch to player" option used in denial, as it would be confusing for standard players. Besides this, i could not decide a way to build "added value" into a "end game" button, which would basically display "Player X wins with N points. Please start a new game".

Anyway, that was my thought, i understand you could get a different view on the way it works ! My rule of thumb is : the simpler, the better.

Mythran wrote:

the only thing i was gonna ask about was player naming, but that shouldn't be any more difficult to keep track of than what color piece you are in a board game...again great work :D

Same as above, with added space constraint. No real added value, plus a problem, so i did not implement it.

Edit: Typos.

nipil wrote:

Thanks for your understanding.

No worries. People do all kinds of weird things with versioning. Try releasing minor and major point versions of a batch program. THAT gets silly.

nipil wrote:

Well, i wasn't planning to lock out anything before the idea rose on the forum ;)
I'll update the program, so you can lock "Check" and/or "Search" individualy using two different key combinations.

After talking to Mythran about it before, we kind of agreed that there really would be no need to lock out check. The only instance I can think of where Check might become problematic is if someone is holding the DS and Checking their words (kind of a slow way of Searching) while they're "Scoring." Granted I keep thinking of these elaborate games where there's so many players that we won't inadvertently notice the one player with the DS pressing buttons over and over... Though to be honest, as long as the sound is up, everyone could hear the button presses. *considers tearing out the volume control to keep it from getting turned down during a tournament.*

nipil wrote:

There's actually *nothing* different code-wise in any version. I just build the app three times using different lang.h (for text strings defines), letters.h (for letters value array) and wl.raw (compressed word list). As a consequence, there shouldn't be any bug difference from any version.

Obviously you know more than I do when it comes to the program, but it's always been my habit to report version. When I think about it, it at least seems logical to me that, since there are two different dictionaries used (AND the SOWPODS is much bigger than the TWL), it stands to reason that if, during a search, there's some bit of buggy code during the search, it might return a bug in a larger dictionary than a smaller one. Remember how in the previous version I managed to get a bug to disappear on the TWL version but not on the SOWPODS? (or was that the other way around? the letters are all jumbling together at this point, methinks).

nipil wrote:

I'm using some default OS sound file. I'll up the volume using Audacity or anything similar to modify my source wav file.

Now I'm intensely curious as to what the issue is. I can normally hear all the button clicks just fine in the DS bootup menu. Not like it should be possible, but I wonder if my running the program on an M3 SD might have *anything* to do with this.

nipil wrote:

Mythr... um Takieda wrote:

I'll have to ask the guys that run the scrabble games whether or not that should be permissible. I'll just have to make sure I do some really weird, 7 button combo to be completely sure noone else sees what I've done.

Please do. As a matter of fact, there are 128 "standard" combinations, using the direction pad (8 different inputs) and A,B,X,Y (16 possible combinations). If you have octopussy's fingers, using start and select, and holding the pen down on the touchscreen, you can reach 1024, but i don't advocate its use since it's error prone (you don't have feedback on which combination was just registered to lock things out. I thought 128 combinations was enough, as it'd take quite a time to try them all, and it can't be done without being seen ;)

I will have to let them know that... IMO they'll probably try to hit as many random buttons as possible, and as quickly as possible. The ability to lock it out of everyone's reach is paramount in our tournaments (in any tournament I'd say). You mentioned the touchscreen. Does that mean you can actually touch and hold the touchscreen as part of the password as well? For that matter, is it the whole touchscreen, or is it split up into any sort of sectors, etc..?

nipil wrote:

(description of sorting methods}

Request respectfully withdrawn. I now see why :) (with as short a response, I didn't think it necessary to quote the entire previous statement)

nipil wrote:

takieda wrote:

... seperate store of letters for search and check. A reference to both simultaneously would be nice though.

I don't get the idea. Could you detail ?

Basically, the ability to see both the Rack of letters as well as the new letters being Checked for valid words at the same time. Say on the Check screen, having two fields, one that shows the your current Rack of letters and the other that is your edit field. The edit field would be the field you'd change, while the Rack remains static. When you go back to search, then the edit field remains static while the Rack field changes with letters being pressed. Rather than having to look at three places to formulate words to check on, it will allow you to see your rack, and the word you're working on without having to look AT your rack... okay, perhaps a bit off of an idea. I just keep looking at the Check section and think to myself, "if only I could see my rack right now" while testing, as I haven't been able to test this current version while actually playing a game. We'll see how much I need/want the feature when in an actual game.

nipil wrote:

For the first part of it, i could ask ironnically "Have you seen and 'end game' button ? What about simply looking at the score, and say who wins ?" :-)

But in a normal game of Scrabble, when you're writing down scores, you can at least write END GAME on the piece of paper :) Thusly, the piece of paper has more options than this program and is superior! (okay, I kid, I kid... no real arguments here). End Game not needed :)

And thanks for the extra versions. I've played a few, but some I've not (never tried dice with a game before - always wanted to eliminate more chance, not add it - heh :)

nipil wrote:

Anyway, that was my thought, i understand you could get a different view on the way it works ! My rule of thumb is : the simpler, the better.

As a physicist (in name only, I just like to talk theory, not really make anything), my rule of thumb has always been, "Make it as simple as it can be, but no simpler."

nipil wrote:

Same as above, with added space constraint. No real added value, plus a problem, so i did not to implement it.

There would be a few ways to do naming, but the time it takes to do it might be more work than its worth. But as I don't do the work, I've got the time to say them, so here they are! hehe.

1) First letter of name only (changing it from ABCD, to JRTS (for, say, Jack, Russell, Terry, Sue), and then having a field at top that says the name of the current player. This could also be enhanced by having individual columns highlighted, or made slightly darker, to show who's playing. (might be important if you had, say, a four player game with Jack, John, Joe, and Jacob).
2) Have the full name displayed, within the constraints of the field itself. As long as there's room, it shows it. Most games I play are four player and smaller, and there's usually more than enough room for at least a 3 letter acronym for someone's name.
3) Assigning colors (okay, I know this isn't "naming'). In games where you have a single scorekeeper, it can be easier to associate someone with colors rather than a single letter. It also helps to reduce a slight amount of confusion when you have nothing but random letters everywhere (trust me, after a full day of scrabble, if you see the letters TH on someone's shirt it starts to mess with your ability to remember your own tiles).

NEW FEATURE REQUEST Holy crud, it just dawned on me. So far, we've been lucky with our games, everyone's been clearing their racks out like normal, but there's always the chance of handing the DS to the next player without properly clearing your rack, thusly allowing them to see what you're playing with.
What if, after entering a score, it automatically clears the rack (assuming there's more than one player - please tell me I'm not the only one who plays by himself. I assume not as the option for a one player game IS there). I'm tired and about to go to bed, so this may be a bad idea, but it just sprung to me and I thought I should mention it. Thoughts?
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takieda wrote:

it's always been my habit to report version.

It's a good idea. When it comes to diagnostic, more information is better.

takieda wrote:

Does that mean you can actually touch and hold the touchscreen as part of the password as well? For that matter, is it the whole touchscreen, or is it split up into any sort of sectors, etc..?

I mean the touchscreen is used as "yet-another-binary-input-bit: touch=1, notouch=0". No sectors/split zones... By unreliable, i mean that *if* you aim at pressing bottom-right, X/B/Start & pressing the touchscreen, rest assured you'll release a key without noticing it, and your lock-combination will be different from what you thought it would be. And you'd be completely unable to unlock (whether it be you or any kind of ?ber referee). And if you use the touchscreen as part of the combination, don't click on buttons, as the UI engine is still running ;)

takieda wrote:

having two fields ... haven't been able to test ... We'll see how much I need/want the feature when in an actual game.

You prolly guess my answer: as it would require another input field, that means modifying the UI, which i'm not quite willing to, now that i already refactored it once ;)

takieda wrote:

"Make it as simple as it can be, but no simpler."

This one's from Einstein ;)

takieda wrote:

it automatically clears the rack

If you mean clear all three inputs when a score entry is added, ok i'll add it.

Let me sum up the upcoming tweaks :
- louder sound, to fix takieda's broken speakers ;)
- clear every input field (search/check) when a score entry is added
- separate lock functions (one for search and one for check)
- confirmation step when trying to create a new game

nipil wrote:

I mean the touchscreen is used as "yet-another-binary-input-bit: touch=1, notouch=0". No sectors/split zones... By unreliable, i mean that *if* you aim at pressing bottom-right, X/B/Start & pressing the touchscreen, rest assured you'll release a key without noticing it, and your lock-combination will be different from what you thought it would be. And you'd be completely unable to unlock (whether it be you or any kind of ?ber referee). And if you use the touchscreen as part of the combination, don't click on buttons, as the UI engine is still running ;)

This is actually the point... The idea is that NOONE during a tournament is allowed to search for words. That's why I thought ti best to have it locked at startup, that way ONLY a restart would allow you to get in... Whereas if I manage a combination that not even I know how to repeat, then a ref would probably allow it, even allow it for individual scorekeeping. At the least, the options are unlocked when you restart the DS.

nipil wrote:

You prolly guess my answer: as it would require another input field, that means modifying the UI, which i'm not quite willing to, now that i already refactored it once ;)

This much I did expect. Honestly haven't had the chance to play a game yet with the new version so I don't know how much it might be needed or wanted. Honestly, though, the more I think of it, the less likely it's needed though (because it's taking away from the simplistic nature of the app and making it more and more like a full fledged game of Scrabble on the DS (I know it's still got a long way to go before that's true, but the less you look at the board, the more gets taken away from the game, so using it to build some kind of strategy, I feel, would probably take away from the game.) Okay, now I'm rambling... *zips the lip*

nipil wrote:

takieda wrote:

"Make it as simple as it can be, but no simpler."

This one's from Einstein ;)

Hey, that is MY MOTTO! How DARE Einstein steal it from me. That's right, I see the similarities. Bum just tryin' to change the words a bit and thinking I won't notice... Where's my lawyer?

Seriously though, I wasn't meaning that I owned or created the motto.... Just that it's something I live by, so it's "my motto" in that regard. My physics teacher is the one who taught it to me and that's how I like to think, thusly my motto :)

nipil wrote:

takieda wrote:

it automatically clears the rack

If you mean clear all three inputs when a score entry is added, ok i'll add it.

Thanks for this, but... what three inputs? I only count Search and Check. Am I boldly missing a third of this app's abilities(that noone seems to have mentioned, btw)?
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takieda wrote:

This is actually the point... The idea is that NOONE during a tournament is allowed to search for words.

Why give Herman any special treatment? :-)

takieda wrote:

Thats why I thought ti best to have it locked at startup, that way ONLY a restart would allow you to get in... Whereas if I manage a combination that not even I know how to repeat, then a ref would probably allow it, even allow it for individual scorekeeping. At the least, the options are unlocked when you restart the DS.

Using rebootlib, right?
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tepples wrote:

takieda wrote:

This is actually the point... The idea is that NOONE during a tournament is allowed to search for words.

Why give Herman any special treatment? :-)

You know how WRONG you are for that? (See? I can pull wikipedia links out of my butt too!)

tepples wrote:

takieda wrote:

Thats why I thought ti best to have it locked at startup, that way ONLY a restart would allow you to get in... Whereas if I manage a combination that not even I know how to repeat, then a ref would probably allow it, even allow it for individual scorekeeping. At the least, the options are unlocked when you restart the DS.

Using rebootlib, right?

I had actually requested something of this nature early on, not sure if nipil remembers, but I didn't know there was a library specifically for it :) Now, if/when I start coding, I'm going to abuse the HELL out of it!
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Quote:

- some dice-based mode, in which you have to add the dice-based number of letter (in a single word), picking an "as equal as possible" number of letters from each player's letter rack (ie for a 3 player game, and a 6 letter word, you would have to use 2 letters from each player rack, which are visible), or you get an awesome penalty (ie fixed or time-increasing negative score) if you don't manage to. Really fun, even with newcomers, as words are short and easy.

- some denial mode, where racks are visible, and opponents can try to "enhance the length/point" of your candidate word without changing the base-letter set it contains (namely, make a "better" word than you with the same letters + one/two of theirs) the one with the best point number gets to play next, and if you were countered (ie opponents enhanced your candidate, you don't earn anything but lose your letters (which are used to form the word on board).

- normal/denial variant , in which for each odd number you get a positive score, and if your word (or its enhanced version) gets an even score, you get a negative score. Tricky thing is that you're not allowed to visually test your candidate (or enhanced candidate) on board, and double/triple letter/words make it quite random and funny.

- Any of the above (preferably denial-variant), with a timed-round (30 to 90 seconds), and "K"ill events (if you draw the "K", put all your letters back to the bag, and your score is reset to 0). You get to play next, even if another player is already thinking/playing/countering. Game ends when there's an exact number of letters in the bag (10 to 20 letters, number decided beforehand) in the bag, to avoid the a "reset" series at end-game.

- Marathon game, normal game, in which on a sheet of paper you keep track of the base letter added on each turn (ie the exact letters a player placed on the board). When the letter bag is empty, you get to remove the exact letter that were placed on the 5 first turn, and put them back in the bag. Then each turn, the letters from the next "previous" word (ie, 6th, 7th, etc.) are removed from the board, and added to the bag. This way, the the board gets coninuously cleared and the game never really ends ; who "wins" is the top-scoring player after a given time has eslapsed since game start. You can throw in time-based turns for good measure.

Hey nipil!

So yeah, I'm having a hard time visualizing some of these game variants. Is there a webpage or something to view that has pictures on where you got these sources?

So am I to understand correctly that you will not be featuring Conundrum down the road? I looked for almost an hour online and couldn't find hardly any information on the game so I have no idea if this "game theory" is copyrighted or not?

By the way, I thought Scrabble was "open source".

Well, this is certainly off topic but I was hoping for a little feedback. I'm a pretty big fan of sporting events and have been thinking about a way to create some kind of gaming rules for a football variant to scrabble. I know that it's on odd pairing but thought that if someone was creative enough and threw out some suggestions it could lend some merit.

So yeah, completely off topic, but if I could possibly get some thoughts from either takieda, nipil, or Mythran on some gaming ideas about this, that would be really great.

Oh, and takieda, your graphic rendering board and tiles looks killer! Awesome, awesome stuff! :o)

Opus wrote:

So yeah, I'm having a hard time visualizing some of these game variants. Is there a webpage or something to view that has pictures on where you got these sources?

Sorry, no. As said in the corresponding post, these are game modes we "invented" with my wife and/or with friends. I didn't put anything on the web about it, and haven't searched on this subject, but it turns up today i found no info about these modes, so i looks like we definitly invented it ;) One thing is that the rules are not "fixed/strict/laws", it can be adapted according to the players wishes (our aim is to have fun), that's why each description is not extensive. But if you want, i could develop on how these modes work (though basically everything is on this post). I'll make a full post about it, or even make a web-page, but it'll take some time to do so, so be patient (and it's not a top prio ;)

Opus wrote:

So am I to understand correctly that you will not be featuring Conundrum down the road? I looked for almost an hour online and couldn't find hardly any information on the game so I have no idea if this "game theory" is copyrighted or not?

As i said here, this game mode deserve a port on its own. I said it was very interesting mode, and well, that could be a hint it landed on my project to-do list. I merely said this wouldn't be featured in the scrabble assistant ! And about "copyright" stuff, well. That's about the same problem with this being named after the Scrabble trademark. As long as you don't get money from it and noone looses any, i'm quite sure there won't be any problems.

Opus wrote:

Well, this is certainly off topic but I was hoping for a little feedback. I'm a pretty big fan of sporting events and have been thinking about a way to create some kind of gaming rules for a football variant to scrabble. I know that it's on odd pairing but thought that if someone was creative enough and threw out some suggestions it could lend some merit.

AFAIK, you never spoke about the football-thing on this thread, and i noticed/replied to your "Conundrum" which wasn't left unnoticed... So what was your point ?

UPDATE: v0.6b is out. Please visit the usual website to get your copy ;)

0.6a TWEAKING UPDATE
- added text hint on how to start a game

0.6b TWEAKING UPDATE
- added new game confirm box
- added separate check/search function lock
- added permanent function lock
- added louder click-sound

Be sure to take a look at the readme file to get valuable info on how locking works now.

Have fun.

Quote:

AFAIK, you never spoke about the football-thing on this thread, and i noticed/replied to your "Conundrum" which wasn't left unnoticed... So what was your point ?

Oh hey, if I said something out of line, I certainly didn't mean to upset you.

Well the thing is, I've been thinking on my own for about six months now about some time of word/scrabble type football game. Like something to the effects of trying to matriculate the ball down the field based on word knowledge and the other player is on defense attempting to stop you from scoring. I know, it sounds pretty outlandish but I thought maybe I could receive a few ideas from you guys.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread by going off topic like this, but I felt this was probably the best opportunity, if ever actually, where I could get a little feedback on this idea from some gaming theorists such as yourselves.

Besides that, you guys seem to have a lot in common with myself. Especially takieda who takes his wife out to the pub, has a few drinks, and plays some fun, casual word games there. I thought I was the only one who tends to do this from time to time. :o)

Anyway, I wasn't by any means asking for a feature release to this.
It's not even like that for me.

So no, my question had nothing to do with your Scrabble Assistant port.

Well, I don't want to take away anything more from this topic so if any of you guys have some interesting ideas or theories on how a football variant to Scrabble might work, or for that fact, might not work, just post me a private message.

Cheers. :o)

Opus wrote:

Oh hey, if I said something out of line, I certainly didn't mean to upset you.

Ahah, clearly not. I'm just not an englishman, so maybe i turn my sentences or use words that are out of context. I no way mean you said somehting wrong, i just asked for more info !

And of course, your questions belong to here, don't stop ! But as it's not directly relevant to the homebrew program, and as there's a "Game Design board", maybe it would be better to start/go on with the game design discussion. I'll create a Scrabble-based ideas thread in there. That way, we could all discuss our ideas on other ways to play !

Edit : Scrabble-based game design thread created here. Bookmark it !

Stop worrying mate, we're all here to get some pleasure from what we read/write, not to argue or feels sorrow because of mis-translation or misinterpretation. Besides, I do apologize if some of my wording are wrong, as i try to do my best, english-wise ;)

Last edited by nipil on Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Don't hesitate to keep me updated on whatever request you think about. I don't mean i'll do all or any, but don't stop giving ideas now that it's ... "sufficiently working" !

opus wrote:

Besides that, you guys seem to have a lot in common with myself. Especially takieda who takes his wife out to the pub, has a few drinks, and plays some fun, casual word games there. I thought I was the only one who tends to do this from time to time. :o)

actually it was I who said this, but no worries :) ...and likewise i'm glad as well..i actually thought i was the only one who did that..i actually felt kind of dumb after i posted it in the first place :P

nipil, the app works great..i've used it a few times for a couple full games lately, havent gotten the totally latest version, i'm going to do that tonight. i cant really think of anything that didn't work correctly or with the most optimization. maybe the only thing i could think of was a save feature..even if just for one game, where it saves the current score for use later.

i've found myself twice being stupid and the red light coming on on my ds 1/3 of the way through a game...luckily it lasted both times, but it kinda scared me :P ..i was again out at the pub with my girl and wouldnt have been able to charge it anywhere anyway, but i could have turned it off during a pause in our game when our food came..that was the time i was worried about the battery. i also have a "travel" scrabble where the pieces are plastic and all lock into a plastic board that can fold in half and hold all of the pieces in place, letting you continue at any time..it would be great for this as well, when you cant always play a game from start to finish.

just a suggestion, keep up the good work!

Another potential idea - this time for Search. When doing a Search based on a rack, it might be nice to select certain letters to ensure that the letters are in the anagrams it finds. Using this method, it would either show only those anagrams, or have those listed first, allowing you to ensure that whatever words you create are going to use letters on the board. i.e. If you have a Q on the board, and only the letters "UAZKIYJ" you can tell it to only show words with the letter Q in them (the protected tile), and you'll find the words that you can quickly use on the board. In this case, the most obvious one with only the letter Q being protected is QUA.

basically you can use ANY letters in your rack, but ONLY attach to the letters on the board, so board letters should be protected letters and required to be in the word list created by SA. This, of course, isn't always necessary as created an entirely new word to attach onto something else (like spelling SPOON while attaching the S to another word, making it plural), but can be quite effective if what you're looking at isn't immediately understandable.

Also would be neat to be able to rearrange the letters on your Rack, then select protected letters. i.e. if you have the rack above, and you have two letters Q and L on the board spaced with three spaces in between, then you could select the letters UAZKIYJQL, rearrange them to spell QUAZLKIYJ, then tell it Q and L are protected and in the proper space. It would then ONLY show words that have at least five letters, have a Q and an L, and have three letters in between... only word I can think of offhand is Quail. Might be important with words that use a lot of basic letters and you can create a lot of anagrams using it.

Okay, my rambling is done, time to test the current build... I'll be back to write up my thoughts on it in a few :)
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nipil wrote:

UPDATE: v0.6b is out. Please visit the usual website to get your copy ;)

Much awesomeness! I wasn't expecting anything until version 0.7!

nipil wrote:

0.6a TWEAKING UPDATE
- added text hint on how to start a game

Perfectly what is needed. Only thing more I could think of, and can't think of how to implement, is how to "Create new game" while in the middle of a game. Quite intuitive as it is, but *might* be a little misunderstood, or lost entirely if the DS is passed onto someone else to score.

nipil wrote:

0.6b TWEAKING UPDATE
- added new game confirm box

Works flawlessly, much appreciated :)

nipil wrote:

- added separate check/search function lock

I didn't even really have to look at the readme to figure this one out. Once I saw that L then R locked Check, I expected R then L to lock Search. (of course, with added keys in between :)

nipil wrote:

- added permanent function lock

This does exactly what I need for the tournament refs to be happy. Thanks a ton! This is now an absolute must at tournaments :) Hell, if I were you, I'd contact hasbro to see if this app could be licensed now!

nipil wrote:

- added louder click-sound

You cheeky devil you! I don't know how much louder you had to make the clicks, but it's now exactly how loud I like it. (I'm kinda deaf, so if someone else uses it, they can always turn it down :)

nipil wrote:

Be sure to take a look at the readme file to get valuable info on how locking works now.

I have a response to this, but it may be tomorrow before I have it ready :)

All in all, minus some minor UI tweaks, skinning ability, etc. this program is complete in every way for what I need. (I even noticed that the rack is cleared when you enter a score - something you didn't mention - or I overlooked, heh). You have made one hell of an excellent app, nipil, thanks very much.

I just hope, in catering to what I've asked, I haven't inadvertently had you make the program worse for others. Doubtful, but I'm just one person, and have just received a few ideas from others when it didn't work the way they expected/wanted, during gameplay.
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Okay, so I'm obsessed and I HAD to get this one finished.

Please, nipil, understand, I'm not trying to override you on your readme or anything, but I thought a more in depth readme with a bit of rewording, and more information (compiling all info from your site about it as well), etc. might be nice. Plus, I reworded it and reorganized it so it's in the same form as the Scrabble manual :) (yes, I'm THAT obsessed).

So, I present to all, a new manual!

Critiques? Criticisms? Hatemail?

All but the last, please feel free to badger me on this thread. Send all hatemail to "dubya@whitehouse.gov" (a silly joke about the current U.S. president, whom I don't hate, but I really wish wasn't representing me and all other U.S. citizens)

*now, back to skinning this puppy* (wait, that sounded *REALLY* wrong).

P.S. the CONTENTS lists all versions, that can be curtailed to list only the files in each archive, or make a single archive with all files (especially useful if/when nipil adds DLDI support, which I do believe he said he was going to add).
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Okay, so I have to ask...

Nipil, I know that this is just a scrabble assistant helper utility program thing a bobber and not a dictionary, but do you ever picture yourself possibly changing your mind somewhere down the road on this?

I mean, there's something to be said about the inherent, social entertainment when learning a new word such as "gleet" at the same time with all of your slightly, drunken friends. From there one can bring up the story on how my former roommate had to shave his eyebrows the following day after a nightly romp at the local strip club because .... oh wait .... maybe I should just end this right here. There might be a little kid reading this post and I wouldn't want to scare the crap out of him. :o)

But yeah, learning new meanings is close to a quarter of the fun when playing with friends in a dynamic group setting. Sure, we can use a Scrabble or Webster dictionary to find out the definitions, but then, what would be the point of your port?

Anyway, other than that massive, unreasonable request, your latest release is perfect.

Congrats! :o)

Opus: if you read the rewrite of the manual I did, it's not my intention to leave conundrum out of the list of game variations. I just copied and pasted nipils list, then started to try to rewrite that and decided the better of it. I'll be doing that for some time. Then I'll work on rewording Conundrum rules as well as a few of my own rulesets.
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takieda wrote:

Then I'll work on rewording Conundrum rules as well as a few of my own rulesets.

Don't forget to post these in here where it could be developped as much as we want. I think that would be interesting to get a central detailed view on how these work. As i have some time, i'll start detailing there some of the modes i spoke about earlier.

Two more feature requests! (sorry to be so demanding). Sleep support (closing the lid should turn off the lights, etc..), and scrolling using the D-Pad.

Basic stuff... I'm surprised noone has asked about sleep mode (or have they and I just never noticed?). And the other is just something I keep doing inadvertently thinking scrolling will work...

That being said, the program held its own in its first game today! Scoring was phenomenally simple, and locking worked like a charm :)
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Added to the to-do list :
- Sleep mode
- D-pad scrolling.
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Myrthan (save) & Takieda (fixed letters), i completely skipped your posts on top of this page... Dunno, why, really :( I do apologize for it, and i'll take a bit o' time to think about what you both said and answer it in due time.

Edit: @takieda I just read your enhanced readme file. It's awesome. I included it in the latest packages, just reformatted the lines to "less-than-80-char" wide paragraphs. Thanks a lot for doing it !
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Last edited by nipil on Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

UPDATE: v0.6c is out. Please visit the usual website to get your copy.

0.6c TWEAKING UPDATE
- added low-power mode when lid is closed
- added D-pad scroll abilities (Up/Down)

Have fun.
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nice..everything is working great..i did get to try it a couple times in a real game, and worked flawlessly...sorry i haven't given any feedback sooner, been really busy lately.

...i have no idea why i didnt think of a sleep mode thing...like i said in a previous post, i was sitting there eating my food w/ the ds open not even thinking to check whether it slept while closed..it could have saved the stress of not knowing whether my battery was going to die...oh well, it'll be much appreciated once its working though

Mythran wrote:

maybe the only thing i could think of was a save feature. even if just for one game, where it saves the current score for use later.

I just started playing with libfat, and so far i managed to get a simple app to read and write using my MK5/R4. So basically, saving the current game just needs some additionnal code (namely serializing and deserializing an object.

So next step for me will be :
- add support for saving current game
- add support and menu for language/dictionnary choice
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nipil wrote:

Mythran wrote:

maybe the only thing i could think of was a save feature. even if just for one game, where it saves the current score for use later.

I just started playing with libfat, and so far i managed to get a simple app to read and write using my MK5/R4. So basically, saving the current game just needs some additionnal code (namely serializing and deserializing an object.

So next step for me will be :
- add support for saving current game
- add support and menu for language/dictionnary choice

Does this mean you'll be adding DLDI support, and custom dictionary support? one thing I've been considering is parsing a word list from different sources, like urbandictionary.com among others. Having custom dictionaries, while nearly not really needed would be a neat addition.

OOO, add on to that, the ability to add words to the dictionary, with the ability to create new dictionaries.

Also, if you're going to implement DLDI support, can a full dictionary be used instead of just a word list, thereby allowing definitions for the weirder words? (try explaining to people what CWM means in the middle of a major game - of course they have to accept it as it is in the SOWPODS list - dunno about TWL as I hardly ever use that).

One variation I've played a few times that could benefit from "adding words" is the Create a Word game. The house rules to it are various, but usually contain some form of these:
The word has to be fake - doesn't exist in the official Scrabble dictionary - or whatever dictionary is on hand at the given time. The word, when challenged has to be shown to be fake, and a definition must then be created that all players vote on whether or not it sounds real enough to be accepted. From then on, the word is acceptable. Bonus points are awarded for multiple word creations (i.e. creating two or more words in a single go - not just adding an S to an assumed noun, but putting two words side by side and creating words like XE and AZ, etc.) as well as bonus points for creating larger words. The larger the word is, the less likely people are to vote it as okay, which means it has to have better and better definitions, better and better etymologies, etc. These games can be REALLY outrageous, if you have people with histories in other languages, like Latin, Sanskrit, etc... (which I have some limited knowledge of).

As an interesting sidenote, we speculated on certain real words and how likely they would be to be able to be played in a game like the above, and words like People would never be playable (where exactly DOES that damned O come from anyway?).

Basically, for that game, adding a word (and perhaps even a definition) would be quite useful.

Kind of an odd idea, I know... I don't know if anybody else would even be concerned about something like that.. PLUS it might be pretty bad if someone else could access any of the official word lists and add whatever words they want - would be an effective method of cheating, esp. if they could do it between games with noone looking. Some security would be needed... hm...
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takieda wrote:

Does this mean you'll be adding DLDI support, and custom dictionary support? one thing I've been considering is parsing a word list from different sources, like urbandictionary.com among others. Having custom dictionaries, while nearly not really needed would be a neat addition.

Custom wordlists will be supported. I'll provide the PC tool to build the wordlist in the right format. Warning : input format/charset/size restrictions will apply, which will be detailed later. But basically, any raw ascii word list can be used.

takieda wrote:

Also, if you're going to implement DLDI support, can a full dictionary be used instead of just a word list, thereby allowing definitions for the weirder words?

Using dictionnaries (ie. word+meaning) might be added. I was asked before (sorry, don't remember who pointed this out) about getting the Check'ed info over WiFi from various information sites, but an offline version might be more interesting, as each and every user would benefit from it. And that would also please Potent1 (cf here). But to support it, questions are: how could i get a "distribution-free" dictionnary ? Will this dictionnary reference every word in the word list ? What size would it be ? etc... Same as above, if i add dictionnary support, i'll provide the tool to build a usable file out of your custom dictionnary. Again, format/input restriction would apply.

Just a quick note, to make things clearer about each feature, i'd appreciate if you could use the "wordlist" term for what's in use now (ie words only), and "dictionnary" if you imply a wordlist including the meanings of words.

Besides, i don't want to make any kind of in-game database modification (cf. points below)

takieda wrote:

One variation ... The word has to be fake ... definition must then be created ...

Nice idea. But to answer your question : yes you might add words to a custom wordlist, yes you might add the definition to a custom dictionnary, but no, you won't be able to do it in-game, cf. point above.

takieda wrote:

PLUS it might be pretty bad if someone else could access any of the official word lists and add whatever words they want - would be an effective method of cheating, esp. if they could do it between games with noone looking. Some security would be needed... hm...

Basically, that's the reason why no in-game modification. About "cheating", i'll add basic md5 (or sha1) checks for the 3 "official" wordlists i provide ; so if the files are modified, at least a warning is displayed. Ofc any security measure can always be cracked, but ... if you want play with someone who would actually try to locate and modify the wordlists' hash signatures inside the .nds file on your flashcart, i think you shouldn't play with that person ;)
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nipil wrote:

Basically, that's the reason why no in-game modification. About "cheating", i'll add basic md5 (or sha1) checks for the 3 "official" wordlists i provide ; so if the files are modified, at least a warning is displayed

i think this is a great solution...simple, but not too simple :) ..and yes, everything is hackable and crackable, but with something like this(if it was THAT big of a deal), all it would take is for any "official" referee to have a copy

gbadev.org forum archive

DS homebrew announcements > Scrabble Assistant DS (FR,EN) v0.6c

#149418 - nipil - Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:28 pm

#149421 - tepples - Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:44 pm

#149423 - Cid2Mizard - Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:54 pm

#149426 - nipil - Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:37 pm

#149437 - tepples - Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:42 am

#149453 - nipil - Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:55 am

#149466 - nipil - Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:27 pm

#149580 - Opus - Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:30 am

#149609 - Potent1 - Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:46 pm

#149625 - tepples - Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:18 pm

#149709 - Mythran - Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:57 am

#149718 - nipil - Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:25 pm

#149723 - Maxim - Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:12 pm

#149726 - nipil - Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:13 pm

#149732 - Opus - Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:55 pm

#149733 - Potent1 - Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:18 pm

#149737 - nipil - Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:27 pm

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#149739 - Potent1 - Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:37 pm

#149741 - nipil - Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:59 pm

#149746 - nipil - Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:33 pm

#149748 - Potent1 - Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:32 pm

#149750 - tepples - Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:54 pm

#149760 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:31 am

#149762 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:37 am

#149778 - Mythran - Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:53 am

#149780 - takieda - Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:07 am

#149781 - takieda - Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:10 am

#149782 - Mythran - Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:49 am

#149783 - takieda - Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:24 am

#149789 - Opus - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:16 am

#149790 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:30 am

#149791 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:42 am

#149793 - Mythran - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:55 am

#149794 - Mythran - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:59 am

#149796 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:33 pm

#149820 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:13 pm

#149822 - takieda - Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:44 pm

#149833 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:20 pm

#149837 - Mythran - Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:58 pm

#149838 - nipil - Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:07 pm

#149909 - Mythran - Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:39 pm

#149917 - nipil - Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:48 am

#149919 - Mythran - Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:05 am

#149945 - nipil - Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:08 pm

#149957 - Mythran - Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:26 pm

#149964 - takieda - Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:18 am

#149970 - nipil - Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:15 am

#149973 - Mythran - Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:02 am

#149980 - nipil - Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:48 am

#149995 - lord_hardware - Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:29 pm

#149996 - Mythran - Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:33 pm

#150005 - nipil - Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:03 pm

#150038 - takieda - Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:41 am

#150039 - Mythran - Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:40 am

#150041 - takieda - Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:00 am

#150043 - Mythran - Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 am

#150059 - nipil - Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:20 pm

#150093 - nipil - Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:47 pm

#150098 - takieda - Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:22 pm

#150100 - nipil - Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:45 pm

#150109 - Mythran - Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:46 am

#150124 - takieda - Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:57 am

#150132 - nipil - Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:34 am

#150137 - takieda - Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:38 am

#150178 - nipil - Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:05 pm

#150181 - nipil - Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:10 pm

#150203 - takieda - Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:27 am

#150204 - tepples - Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:33 am

#150205 - takieda - Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:08 am

#150219 - Opus - Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:14 pm

#150227 - nipil - Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:15 pm

#150233 - nipil - Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:45 pm

#150235 - Opus - Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:28 pm

#150236 - nipil - Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:42 pm

#150239 - nipil - Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:02 pm

#150255 - Mythran - Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:24 am

#150258 - takieda - Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:05 am