#8543 - sgeos - Sun Jul 13, 2003 5:00 pm
What type of memory is actually used to store the ROM in a typical commercial game. I imagine that it is some type of non-volatile memory.
-Brendan
#8545 - Cyberman - Sun Jul 13, 2003 5:46 pm
Ok SINCE you REALLY want to know.
It's what's termed OTP EPROM and it's very special memory indeed.
If you haven't noticed FLASH carts have special external devices to control the flash rom's address. It's primary because the lower 16 address bits are multiplexed with the data bus.
This is built into the device they use for the cartridges. EPROM cells are different than EEPROM cells (which are used in flash carts) The EPROM devices are programed before packaging (seriously) into the package that's eventually soldered to the cartridge circuit board. So following this. The chip is factory programed (it's CHEAPER to do this because you won't have excess inventory this way) then packaged and then soldered to the board. That summs it up. You only need a few parts this way. 256M parts are going to be available sometime I might point out as well.
Nintendo no longer uses MASK ROM parts, due to cost and excess inventory caused by it. The future will likely see a low cycle flash part replacing the EPROM parts this is SOONER than you might think.
I'm still baffled by nintendo's insisstance on using non standard technology for everything it does .. such is the ways of nintendo. Really eats into there bottom line big time.
Cyb
#8550 - tepples - Sun Jul 13, 2003 9:37 pm
| Cyberman wrote: |
| I'm still baffled by nintendo's insisstance on using non standard technology for everything it does |
Use of proprietary storage technology such as the GameCube optical disc (instead of a standard 8cm mini-DVD) gives Nintendo a bigger time window before the l4m3rZ figure out how to pIr4t3 the g4m3z0rZ. Just look at how fast the PS2 and Xbox piracy scene popped up, and look how long it's taking to crack the GCN. It appears Sony has learned from Nintendo and will use a proprietary MiniDisc-derived storage medium on its new handheld game system in place of mini-CD or mini-DVD.
_________________
-- Where is he?
-- Who?
-- You know, the human.
-- I think he moved to Tilwick.
#8551 - ampz - Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:56 pm
| sgeos wrote: |
| What type of memory is actually used to store the ROM in a typical commercial game. I imagine that it is some type of non-volatile memory. |
Gee, ROM _IS_ the memory type. ROM is not a file type or a specially formatted game or anything. It is a type of memory.
| Cyberman wrote: |
Ok SINCE you REALLY want to know.
It's what's termed OTP EPROM and it's very special memory indeed.
If you haven't noticed FLASH carts have special external devices to control the flash rom's address. It's primary because the lower 16 address bits are multiplexed with the data bus.
This is built into the device they use for the cartridges. EPROM cells are different than EEPROM cells (which are used in flash carts) The EPROM devices are programed before packaging (seriously) into the package that's eventually soldered to the cartridge circuit board. So following this. The chip is factory programed (it's CHEAPER to do this because you won't have excess inventory this way) then packaged and then soldered to the board. That summs it up. You only need a few parts this way. 256M parts are going to be available sometime I might point out as well.
Nintendo no longer uses MASK ROM parts, due to cost and excess inventory caused by it. The future will likely see a low cycle flash part replacing the EPROM parts this is SOONER than you might think. |
Where do I start... OTP EPROM memory chips work very much like flash memory, but they can only be programmed once. OTP EPROM is usually programmed by the customer, not by the factory.
Can you provide an trustworthy source for the claim that Nintendo no longer use mask ROM?
OTP EPROM that suposedly is programmed at factory would not result in any difference in inventory compared to mask ROM (also "programmed" at factory). Mask ROM is considerably cheaper in quantity, and since quantity in not much of a problem for a company who own the entire world market for portable gaming, using anything other than mask ROM would not make much sense.
#8589 - Cyberman - Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:10 pm
| ampz wrote: |
Where do I start... OTP EPROM memory chips work very much like flash memory, but they can only be programmed once. OTP EPROM is usually programmed by the customer, not by the factory.
Can you provide an trustworthy source for the claim that Nintendo no longer use mask ROM?
OTP EPROM that suposedly is programmed at factory would not result in any difference in inventory compared to mask ROM (also "programmed" at factory). Mask ROM is considerably cheaper in quantity, and since quantity in not much of a problem for a company who own the entire world market for portable gaming, using anything other than mask ROM would not make much sense. |
Ok.. please read this again.. and read the article linked .. especially the later thanks.
Yes nintendo uses mask roms .. they are cheapest (for now), however they have problems with a capital P for anything beyond the 64mbit randge, see NRE fees I mentioned before. This means short run games or quick turnaround is NOT possible. IE Your minimum game count is large, your time to market is long. Now since november of 2001 larger GBA games ARE exactly what I said EPROM devices. Turn around minimum with this is 2 days. The devices are supplied by OKI semiconductor and programed AT THE FACTORY. Please READ this article and it will discuse everything I mentioned in much more detail. As well as hints of what nintendo is planing on for future GBA cartridges. Namely specialty flash devices.
I just didn't think posting the whole article was useful to everyone.
Cyb
#9890 - Elf - Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:24 am
Just a (most likely stupid) question: EPROM stands for erasable programmable read-only memory, right? So why is there "OTP EPROM"? Isn't that kind of a contradiction in terms? Why not just say "PROM"?
#9904 - ampz - Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:26 pm
| Elf wrote: |
| Just a (most likely stupid) question: EPROM stands for erasable programmable read-only memory, right? So why is there "OTP EPROM"? Isn't that kind of a contradiction in terms? Why not just say "PROM"? |
An excellent question!
The type of memory called "PROM" in no longer used. Each bit in a PROM was represented by a fuse. To program the bit, you blow the fuse.
EPROM memories use another technique (Storing charges). Flash belongs to this type of memory. The first types of EPROMs were erased by exposing them to UV light. The memory chip had a transparent "window" on the top i order to allow the UV light to reach the silicon. This window was (is) very expensive to manufacture, so someone came up with the idea that, hey, we don't need the windows for chips that go into volume production, since they'll never be erased anyway. So they started making the parts both with and without windows. The Parts without windows simply got their name extended by "OTP" to signify that the chip is "One Time Programmable".
#9939 - Elf - Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:37 am
Ahh, thanks! :)