#20617 - shagma - Thu May 13, 2004 8:00 pm
Is there any news out concerning doing programming on the DS?
It would have been real nice if Nintendo could release a public devkit or something.
Sorry if this has been brought up in anther thread or forum.
#20618 - poslundc - Thu May 13, 2004 8:07 pm
| shagma wrote: |
| It would have been real nice if Nintendo could release a public devkit or something. |
This is the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Dan.
#20621 - shagma - Thu May 13, 2004 8:19 pm
After the history of Nintendo, yes it is kind of funny to believe in that.
But by now Nintendo should have learned that this would have benefited them.
#20626 - Miked0801 - Thu May 13, 2004 10:20 pm
But they won't. And the person who leaks will get destroyed but trained attack lawyers.
#20627 - Lupin - Thu May 13, 2004 10:34 pm
It will become the same as for gba, there will be emulators, compilers, dev hardware, a lot of law problems and copy right patents. At first all the software/hardware available will be buggy/hard to use and with time there will come better tools for homebrew dev, but i think there will never be an official nintendo dev kit... you will have to hack everything together by yourself (but isn't it fun after all?)
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#20630 - dagamer34 - Fri May 14, 2004 12:02 am
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| But they won't. And the person who leaks will get destroyed but trained attack lawyers. |
After Nintendo showed us that "realistic" Zelda video, anything is possible.
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#20633 - MumblyJoe - Fri May 14, 2004 2:30 am
| shagma wrote: |
| It would have been real nice if Nintendo could release a public devkit or something. |
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaah.
Hehehe, that was great. But anyway, yeah it would be nice, so would a free DS in boxes of cereal but it aint gonna happen.
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#20640 - tepples - Fri May 14, 2004 7:12 am
Nintendo's chief competitor released a public devkit for the PS2, called PS2 Linux. If popular gaming magazines hype up the existence of PS2 Linux as a big bullet point for the PS2 and (if Sony continues the practice) the PS3, Nintendo might have no choice but to open up its systems.
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#20641 - NoMis - Fri May 14, 2004 7:55 am
I disagree. Its not making a difference in systems selled because how many people buy a console just for the devkit. I guess they are not much so there is no need for nintendo to do it just cause sony does.
In my oppinion it wouldnt be good for nintendo if they do cause Nintendo always had a strict anti piracy and therefor they never ever will make public devkits. They will make it much easier for hackers to find ways to play games illegal. If you compare PS2 with Gamecube or GBA. PS2 has much more piracy cause there are much more people knowing how to copy PS2 games than people who knows the PSOLoad or have a Flash linker.
#20656 - Lupin - Fri May 14, 2004 2:28 pm
NoMis, did you ever try to put a flash cart into your CD drive? I think it won't work, but maybe you can put a PS2 CD (it's dvd actually, right?) into your drive...
It hasnt anything to do with releasing a devkit or not...
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#20659 - shagma - Fri May 14, 2004 2:37 pm
The problem for Nintendo is that if only a limited firms with licence are going to make the games, it will end up as with the GBA, where about 90% of the game is trash.
#20673 - NoMis - Fri May 14, 2004 5:00 pm
@ Lupin, what i meant was if your releasing a public devkit hackers can obtain it to and will get a deep insight of the system. This way they can easy find ways to make playing of illigal copies possible to the whole community. PS has this problem anywas so they don't have to worry about that. If some smart people didn't find out about PSO loading any type of code it still wouldn't be possible.
NoMis
#20683 - ampz - Fri May 14, 2004 9:21 pm
Well, Nintendo actually do advertise this as a "Developers System". You don't think they will live up to their advertisement? ;-)
Hey.. This could actually be a useful legal argument in future Nintendo lawsuits. "They told us this is a developers system, and now they sue us?!" :)
#20684 - mr_schmoe - Fri May 14, 2004 9:56 pm
There is a main difference between Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo is also a software developer where Sony isn't. Unless I'm mistaken I don't think Sony has actually produced and games, it's all third party. So what would sony loose by offering a public devkit. On the other hand, I could have missed the point of this argument, I only skimmed this post really.
#20685 - Lord Graga - Fri May 14, 2004 10:45 pm
| Miked0801 wrote: |
| But they won't. And the person who leaks will get destroyed but trained attack lawyers. |
I can only just imagine the frowning lawyers to the poor sinner :P
#20688 - dagamer34 - Sat May 15, 2004 12:41 am
| mr_schmoe wrote: |
| There is a main difference between Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo is also a software developer where Sony isn't. Unless I'm mistaken I don't think Sony has actually produced and games, it's all third party. So what would sony loose by offering a public devkit. On the other hand, I could have missed the point of this argument, I only skimmed this post really. |
Sony does publish and develop titles for the PS2. Jak III and Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal are some of their upcoming titles. Granted, they don't publish high-quality games in the same volume as Nintendo, they still do make games.
The one thing though is that the PS2 is the ONLY commercial U.S. system (GP32 doesn't count) ever to do something like that. The only reason I think that it even happened is because 1) code can only be boot from a Linux kit 2) code can only be booted from the HDD, not CDs/DVDs 3) some access to the system is restriced through use of a kernel.
Public release of devkits won't happen. And the homebrew development might not get up to the same levels of the GBA anyway. We'll just have to see.
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#20875 - keldon - Tue May 18, 2004 11:12 pm
the nintendo DS is half built when you think about it - - all we need is the graphics + sound card, which will most likely be the same as the N64 graphics + sound card.
if you can run a DC / N64 emulator on your PC, then (assuming they will be coded good) you should be able to run a DS emulator
it's nothing new apart from built in voice recognition - which is available on open source already
all I say is that you emulator and devkit writers, just get working NOW
#21048 - Fatnickc - Sat May 22, 2004 12:02 pm
It isn't quite, actually. It has slightly better Graphics than GBA and probably A bit better sound. You could probably tweak old N64 emus a bit to recognise the microphone and have higher quality graphics. I don't think The emulators will be all that advanced because it might cause pauses in the game whilst loading the differences in the other screen etc.
#21055 - keldon - Sat May 22, 2004 3:07 pm
Nethertheless we know how to emulate this sort of hardware already. And once we get input / output complete, whether it is just the 2d graphics and simpler processes - we would not be too far from a complete emulator.
#21058 - dagamer34 - Sat May 22, 2004 4:47 pm
You cannot tweak an N64 emu for DS graphics. That's crazy! They do NOT use the same chipsets (N64: MIPS, DS: ARM7/ARM9). It would make a lot more sense if you said to tweak a GBA emu, but because of the dual-processors, it would be a lot easier to rewrite the whole thing.
Just because graphics look the same doesn't mean that an emulator can easily be ported from one system to another.
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#21060 - tepples - Sat May 22, 2004 5:09 pm
It appears that keldon might have speculated that the DS might use the N64's Reality chipset designed with SGI (a 3D accelerator and a DSP), and though the CPU core is different, a (say) C program could be tweaked to run on both without much special casing. I'm guessing not, given how Nintendo redesigned Super NES video from the ground up for the GBA.
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#21063 - keldon - Sat May 22, 2004 5:49 pm
the processor type is irrevelant simply because your code for graphics should be almost seperately self contained.
I doubt it would be much different to the graphics hardware, although just speculation, and even if it is different would still bring forward the same problems. Therefore we should tackle this in the same way the N64's graphics is handled.
Dagamer, you'd be surprised but the processor is actaully the easiest to emulate - the graphics is the one that causes problems. The main problem with graphics is simply how do you find time to emulate it accurately - your answer to that question will detirmine how well your emulator performs on slower computers.
All systems work in the same way - it's just specific hardware that has to be emulated, since they are all Von Neumon.
#21066 - Fatnickc - Sat May 22, 2004 8:16 pm
I meant gba, just talking about N64 got me confused. Maybe it could use an existing gba emulator tweaked and a new one in harmony. I understand that it is not one processor for each screen, and that it can work on either in different ways, but it still might be possible.
#21070 - dagamer34 - Sun May 23, 2004 12:33 am
| keldon wrote: |
the processor type is irrevelant simply because your code for graphics should be almost seperately self contained.
I doubt it would be much different to the graphics hardware, although just speculation, and even if it is different would still bring forward the same problems. Therefore we should tackle this in the same way the N64's graphics is handled.
Dagamer, you'd be surprised but the processor is actaully the easiest to emulate - the graphics is the one that causes problems. The main problem with graphics is simply how do you find time to emulate it accurately - your answer to that question will detirmine how well your emulator performs on slower computers.
All systems work in the same way - it's just specific hardware that has to be emulated, since they are all Von Neumon. |
Alright, you proved me wrong. I guess I see where you are coming from.
Of course, even if it does have the same quality of graphics as the N64, it will still be a while before a usable emulator is released. I still remember that first release of VisualBoyAdvance. I didn't even show all of the screen correctly and was in black & white! How times have changed.
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